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Even during election season, speak in love [UPDATED]
Published 10:07am Monday, October 1, 2012 Updated 12:08pm Monday, October 1, 2012
Stand on truth,
not bickering
It’s only a few weeks until residents of the United States elect their president for the next four years. Every day on television we hear “Why I am best for the job, and my opponent is not.” It seems the negative far outweighs the positive, and the word “politics” has almost become a dirty word.
God ordained government to provide direction for a peaceful society. A place where parents can raise their families and live in the comfort of freedom and protection.
Where churches can freely worship and reach out to share their understanding of the Bible with others. To point out error in what someone else may believe, but not with vicious attacks.
Truth is truth and it is a most powerful force. Present it clearly and it will stand. A two- or three-party system providing such freedom is commendable.
But it appears accusations hurled on both sides have reached the point that, if true, none of the candidates are fit for public office and governmental leadership.
Such attitudes have trickled down to the point that every Tom, Dick and Harry is slinging mud with hateful statements.
It is disheartening to me, and I have stopped listening to most of it. I know who I am going to vote for. And I pray for God’s will to be done.
The worst part is that many who claim to be God-fearing Christians get caught up in the defamatory rhetoric and action. It’s true we are not to sit idly by while unbiblical laws are enacted. Abortion is murder, same-sex marriage has God’s wrath upon it and His judgment will surely come if we do not repent of sin. The marriage of one man to one woman is God’s gift to mankind, not to be deviated from.
My plea today is for Christians to “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15), not trying to present truth with hateful words or attitudes. When challenging error, there is no need for vicious sarcasm to spice it up.
The Bible clearly teaches Christians how to act and react to whatever form of government they live under.
None of the governments in Bible times were based on God’s directions, yet none of the early apostles tried to destroy them. They simply spent their time proclaiming the person of Christ, willing to suffer when need be.
In 1 Timothy 2:1-2, Christians are encouraged to pray for those in authority rather than belittle them with hateful sarcasm. Romans 13:1-7 is helpful for establishing a right attitude.
Give it some thought. Most of all, rest in the truth that God is ruling over all. Sin, both in our personal lives and government, will be dealt with in God’s own timing. Be much in prayer always for the protection of religious freedom. And by all means, vote.
Paul Twist
Henning
Here’s the problem—the letter is very well written. But it rather quietly interject at least two opinions that are not truthful, not Bible based, and states them in such a matter of fact way they seem to be indisputable facts. They are not. At the time of Jesus abortion was both legal and moral. It was NOT considered murder. Jesus said nothing to alter that fact. And with regards to homosexuality, the Bible says nothing about committed same sex partnerships which are what our state is currently discussing.
As the letter writer sates, “Truth is truth and is a most powerful force. Present it clearly and it will stand.” Facts and history matter.
then this letter is not well written, it’s misguided at best and deceitful at worst.
A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.
Proverbs 15:4
Larry says: The bible says nothing about comitted same sex partnerships
God says: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. (Romans 1:24-28)
Larry says: At the time of Jesus abortion was both legal and moral. It was not considered murder.
God says: These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and (hands that shed innocent blood,) Proverbs 6:16-17
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be. Psalm 139:13-16
More to Benjamin than to Merle but I guess a little something to both–We were told to forgive someone for the innocence of their ignorance. There is nothing in Merle’s post that speaks directly to committed same sex partnerships or abortion. It is certainly possible to find random Bible verses and miss-apply them to any situation. We have some evidence of that here.
Consider the struggle of Thomas Aquinas,1226,(St. Thomas was one of the greatest and most influential theologians of all time. He was canonized in 1323 and declared Doctor of the Church by Pope Pius V.), priest and doctor of the Church, patron of all universities and of students, was not as sure abortion was murder as some of our commenters yet they are certainly without his stature.
(BTW–to save a little time while you check this out, Aquinas reasoned if abortion was considered both moral and legal at the time of Jesus, it must be both moral and legal within the context of the Jewish laws of the time and consequently,also in ours.)
I will leave the diplomacy to you.
I am personally sick and tired of the air I breath being polluted by bigots and hate mongers trying to use their limited and perverted references to scripture as reason to be discriminating, prejudicial jerks.
I’m not going to stand for it.
When some [expletive deleted] suggests my literal friends, neighbors, and co-workers are evil degenerates that should be treated as less than equals, I have a problem.
God sez, huh? Hiding behind the “shield of God” to convey one-sided misconceptions because you think something is “icky” is the definition of pathetic. So, why don’t you just stop it and at least have some conviction with your prejudices? If you’re a bigot, just say so, don’t blame it on God. What a blasphemous insult and perfect example of using the Lord’s name in vain.
In Matthew, Jesus says that whatever is done to the least of us is done to us all. Furthermore, “In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.”
Nowhere does Jesus mention homosexuality, let alone label it as sinful. However, Jesus was a supporter of the downtrodden and an advocate for human dignity and unconditional acceptance of all people.
That verse alone should completely knock the broken stool out from underneath republican kooks and their hatred of civil rights but… hey, they’re kooks! Things don’t have to make sense.
“But the book of Romans sez…”
First off, stop using the bible to justify your prejudices. Second of all, so what?
Deuteronomy commands that disobedient children be stoned. Did you stone your children when they misbehaved, Merle?
1st Corinthians says women are to be silent in church, does your church practice that, Merle?
Paul wrote to Titus that slaves are to be submissive to their masters. Do you advocate slavery, Merle?
I predict that those three questions will be unanswered/ignored and the other side will come back with more blah-blah of how America was(n’t) founded on this, that, and whatever other broken-record sound bites they can think of. Original thinking is not this group’s strong suit.
Merle–did you not see the word COMMITTED? The same unnatural acts occur between uncommitted men and women. It is the acts occurring without committment that is the sin, not the act itself.
Merle, for Larry/Walt the scriptures are merely fodder to be twisted and distorted to further his irreligous Marxist propaganda. He is what many know as a “camouflage
Christian”, a non-believer who infiltrates the places where Christians gather so that he may offer bogus interpretations of the Revealed Word in ways which will lead astray gullible people who are ill-formed in faith.
He is Phaedrus and Acker in different clothing.
Glad you are back with us.
Larry says: We were told to forgive someone for the ignorance of their innocents.
1) By Whom? Where? Book, chapter and verse?
Larry says: There is nothing in my post that speaks directly to same sex partnerships.
2) God (through Paul’s letter) does not speak directly to same sex partners?
3) How am I mis-applying the scriptures in regards to God’s admonishment against homo-sexual relationships written in the book of Romans?
Larry says: Consider the struggles of Thomas Aquinas.
4) You choose a lost theologian from the era of the Dark ages as your example of correct doctrine?
5) What qualifies him as being of high stature? Corrupt Popes?
6) Both you and Mr. Unrighteous seem to dismiss verses from the bible written by prophets who were chosen by God as instruments to deliver Hid words. Do you only accept the words written in red (in the red-letter edition) that directly quotes Jesus?
Merle, you quoted Romans 1:24-28 as your “evidence” to substantiate your line of reasoning. Here is Romans 1:24-28 from the Douay-Rheims Bible.
“24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient.”
Nothing from this passage defines homosexuality as a sin. When broken down this passage states that going against “that which is natural” is a sin. Here is the fun part: What is “natural”?
This is a perfect example as to why the Bible is not a good thing to base laws off of. In one version (one mans’ interpretation) it is a passage specifically defining homosexuality as a sin. In another version, it is saying that going against nature is a sin, but does not define what is natural. It is not consistent from version to version. It is a good guideline, but would wreak havoc when implemented as law.
Merle–forgive acts of ignorance–One of the the seven words of Christ spoken from the Cross. (From what better place to learn a lesson?) And again, God through Paul via his letter to Romans was not about actions withiin COMMITTED relationships but rather actions without committment.
Mr Unrighteous,
Where in the bible does it say that Jesus was an advocate for human dignity or unconditional acceptance of all people?
REPENT: To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one’s sins.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
2 Timothy 2:19 But God’s truth stands firm like a foundation stone with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and “All who belong to the Lord must turn away from evil.”
Well, Merle, I see we finally agree on something… your calling me mister.
I asked you three questions to determine your Christian consistency, as I predicted, you ignored them. Whatsa matter, did you ignore all the words in the bible that couldn’t be manipulated to be homophobic?
If you read the bible as much as you like to quote it, I don’t think you would be asking me where Jesus stood up for the trampled. But, you’re probably just being insolent.
You seem to be more interested in having a problem with gay people than accurately conveying the teachings of Jesus Christ. That’s fine, go ahead and do that. It’s a necessary evil that society have a few models of who not to be like. But, like I said, leave Jesus out of it.
Who cares what the bible says here or there? It’s just a “Readers Digest” of the random thoughts of a group of Goat herders written hundreds of years after the fantasy events themselves.
The various books of the so-called bible can’t even agree with each other, they contradict each other more than Mitt Romney does with himself. I guess that’s what Christianity needs to survive. A little something for everyone and anyone. If you don’t like what one page says about some subject, just find another page on the same subject. No matter how whacked out you are, there is a page in the bible that you can quote to support your beliefs.
It would be comical if some weak minded people didn’t take it seriously and then kill others who don’t agree. Rational people understand that your religion is nothing but an accident of your birth place. In other words if one is born in Saudi Arabia chances are extremely likely that you will be a Muslim because that was the religion of your parents. But, I’m willing to bet that fanatic or extremist Christians will hold that they amongst the millions of people in Saudi Arabia would have found the “one true religion” of Christianity because they were so smart and intelligent. Of course they will say that as current Christians never understanding that tonight in Saudi Arabia there is an extremist Muslim saying the very same thing.
It’s like one kook says Superman is real because the D.C. comic book says so and another says Superman is fake but Spiderman is real because Marvel Comic books says so. There is just as much proof that Superman and Spiderman exist as there is proof that God exists. That’s a fact.
Now if you wait a few minutes my tail (Holly) will be here sniffing around to add absolutely nothing but childish rants about me. Which some may find amusing if they are in the third grade.
true, true, and true.
one would think for as militant as some fools are with what the bible says, they might at least weigh in *some* of the contextual and translation considerations…. but that’s probably where the “fool” part really shines through.
Acker, Larry, Brendan, Benjamin… Thank you for helping me to gather another 12 votes for the amendment to protect marriage from the family-hostile left which you all represent. Let me explain.
I occasionally volunteer to assist with senior citizens in nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and seniors’ groups. This morning I was with a group of 27 seniors discussing current events. The topic of the marriage amendment came up when one octegenarian woman said she was confused because her conservative grandson had told her that voting yes would protect marriages and families, but her daughter told her that it was the other way around, as voting no would prevent homosexuals and lesbians from being able to marry.
I explained that it took a yes vote to protect marriage.
A man asked why did it matter at all, he had a great grandson who is homosexual who might want want to marry his boyfriend? A lively discussion ensued.I asked for a count of how people were leaning. There were 11 in favor of defending marriage, 7 who would not care if homosexuals could marry, and 9 undecideds.
So, I asked if they would be interested in hearing what others say about the matter. Of course they would. I turned on my laptop, hooked up to the widescreen TV in the community room, and downloaded this thread to the screen. Various of the people began to read the posts here aloud for the benefit of those with poor eyesight.
There was near unanimous opinion that the lot of you who were savaging and twisting and distorting scripture to win your arguments are not only wrong, but such thngs as “God haters”, devil’s agents, lost souls, arrogant fools, “doomed to eternity in hell”.. And these were the most charitable and printable comments. Most agreed with the opinion of one woman that you were not people who respected scripture or religion.
After about 30 minutes discussion I asked for another show of hands. Supporters had grown from 11 to 23. There were now only 2 supporters instead of 7, and 2 still undecided versus 9 before their exposure to what you have said here. Net gain from reading your invective: 12.
You bunch are some of the best weapons the pro marriage supporters have. Thank you for showing the true nature of the anti marriage activists.. Just shows that God works in many ways His wonders to behold.
It’s not surprising that someone who believes in talking snakes could be easily led to vote yes, with the haters. (as if I believed your story anyway)
By the way Camillabill, I’ve been married to the same woman for nearly forty years, why don’t you tell me how I became an “anti-marriage activist”. I’m the one in favor of marriage, you are the one who is against marriage. Perhaps you can fool a few senior citizens and yourself, but you can’t fool me.
Camilla,
You “explained” that it took a yes vote to “protect” marriage? Shame on you for misleading the elderly. I am disgusted to the point of nausea. You should be ashamed and whomever you report to should dismiss you, immediately.
I’m not anti-family, I am pro-family. And, I’m not a judgmental, non-thinking turd who hides behind selected, out-of-context biblical passages to bully others. I feel sorry for those who are too ignorant and foolish to know that gays and lesbians are capable of having families. Prejudice is really ugly and simply the result of a narrow mind at “work”, thank you for pointing that out.
Allowing gay people to experience the benefits of marriage would hurt no one. NO ONE. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot, and I use that as the 19th/early 20th century medical term it was initially coined as, not a name-call.
Two gay people getting married would have absolutely no impact on your family, and no impact on your life. So, to put it politely, why don’t you butt out? Why is that so hard for you to understand? That question is not rhetorical. Why. Is. It. So. Hard. For. You. To. Under. Stand? You and your equally impaired cohorts have failed to list even one viable way society would be negatively impacted from getting out of the dark ages and realizing gay people are real and not just “straight people who are sinning.” But, you just don’t get it do you? Probably a medical problem.
I applaud the 2 elderly folks who had the courage to stand up to you and your thuggish attempt at persuasion. Their strength and courage is a testament that we can learn from the elderly and that we don’t need to bow to the likes of you.
Should I be bothered that you and some nursing home residents are calling me names… or is it okay to find it amusing? What a fine example of what it means to be Christian. Sounds like you have “sunk to my level” huh? It’s just too easy.
Again, shame on you for conniving those elderly folk. I demand you provide me with the name of the facility you were at so I may write them a letter and undo the results of your arrogance.
Furthermore, Camill-uhhhhhhhh, you owe an apology to the gentleman whose great-grandson you insulted, demonized, and acted so callously holier-than-thou about.
He posed an honest question, “what’s the problem?” to which you had no answer. So, what did you do? You turned the whole room against him. In HIS OWN HOME even. Wow. I didn’t know I could be so disgusted by the actions of another human. Talk about rotten, mean, degenerate behavior.
Lady, who the h*ll do you think you are?
I feel for that man, I really do. What a sad, sad, mean thing you did. If he has great-grandchildren, he’s probably lived a long and happy life. I’m sure he loves his family and he loves the opportunity to spend time with his great-grandson. He clearly doesn’t care if he’s gay, he accepts and loves him anyway, just as Jesus would.
And then there’s you – you walk in like you own the place and fabricate things so as to rile up a bunch of senior citizens. How do you think that man felt listening to you and your hateful venom? I’d wager you don’t even care.
And, that’s the revolting problem with people like you. You don’t care who you hurt, whose life you trample, who you give absolutely no thought or care to writing off. You just tack up YOUR personal prejudices as, “well god sez” and move on to the next ill-informed opinion. It’s literally sickening.
You can call me all the names you wish, I have a thick skin and I expect it from the pig-nosed troglodytes who can’t form a reasonable argument. But what you did today… and then to act proud about it. It is tremendously abhorrent and disappointing. Again, shame on you.
Camilla—I would be much more interested in a poll of nursing home residents to see how many have current, address correct, dated photo ID then I am in the results of a poll following your conversation with them about something you seem to know nothing about. Your statement (or was it the poll question) is skewed toward the result you wanted so is therefore without value. (Who doesn’t want to protect marriage? This amendment does nothing to threaten marriage. Think about it—how strong and complete would a marriage be if the man or woman had or believed they had strong physical attraction to someone of the same sex?)
As for the misrepresentation of Christ’s message promoted by you and some of these others think of this—if I were to write you are a nice person you might think I was giving you a compliment for nice is a positive thing to say about someone in this century. However, if said in its Latin root calling someone a nice person is to say they are ignorant or unaware.
If you or anyone can find a single Biblical reference where God via any of His agents condemned COMMITTED one single same sex partnership I will surrender the point. But until you or someone else does, I will consider you to be promoting a false value to the hearts, minds and most importantly the souls of God’s people.
People can choose to vote whichever way they feel inclined. I can only present facts, math and an accurate understanding of history.
Acker, Richard,Benjamin, Larry.
An hour or so ago I got a call from the man whose grandson might want to marry his boyfriend. He told me that he had prayerfully reflected on this issue, and was now in favor of supporting the protection of marriage and family amendment. And, he told me that a woman who had remained undecided yesterday had also decided to vote against the homosexual’s attempts to wreck marriages and families. They did so partly because of the nasty remarks
you all posted in response to my post about our meeting.
They are angry that you demand to know their address, as they are not willing to listen to your attempts to intimidate them because they have religious convictions. You guys are digging a deeper hole with every attack on marriage and believers you sling out there. Keep it up..Your nasty slurs and insults against people of faith are really helping we who want to protect against your attempts to destroy our American culture by destroying the family and subjugating families to your demands.
BTW, one of the ladies asked her son to bring her a computer so she could share your insults with other people in her group. You are taking the wrong tack to try to intimidate a generation who survived the Great Depression, World War II, and the ensuing socialist led Cold War and socialist attacks on their marriages, their religions, their livelihoods subjected to outrageous tax levels and governmental intrusions in their lives. You guys are literally a God send to those of us who need to show what is in store for everyone if you get your way.
There’s a story of five monkeys in a cage that is circulating the business motivational tour. It is claimed researchers fed the monkeys on the floor of their cage but also put a ladder with an occasional banana at the top. When a monkey climbed the ladder to get the banana, the researcher blasted all of the monkeys with ice cold water. After many blasts of water all five of the monkeys learned not to climb for the banana. Then one of the original monkeys was replaced by a new monkey. When the new monkey tried climbing for the banana the other monkeys grabbed, clawed and bit the new monkey until it learned not to climb. Then one by one the remaining four monkeys were replaced and one by one their replacements learned, through bites and beatings not to climb for the bananas.
The moral here is sometimes a culture can enforce rules and regulations, even through the use of intimidation and violence long after the reason for the rule is forgotten.
In like manner, I know some religious innocents have long believed committed same sex partnerships to be as sin, but as I have written before, there is no place in the New Testament does anyone of God’s chosen voices say committed same sex partnerships is a sin.
I hope you will let your elderly companions read this comment. I hope they would look closely at God’s word and not be like the monkeys who condemn without knowing the truth. Truth is one of the first words in the original letter; I agree it is important.
(BTW–how many of the polls taken in Minnesota indicate more than 50% of us support the amendment? I think we’re pretty safe on the vote but it troubles me when people bastardize God’s Word.)
There’s a story of five monkeys in a cage that is circulating the business motivational tour. It is claimed researchers fed the monkeys on the floor of their cage but also put a ladder with an occasional banana at the top. When a monkey climbed the ladder to get the banana, the researcher blasted all of the monkeys with ice cold water. After many blasts of water all five of the monkeys learned not to climb for the banana. Then one of the original monkeys was replaced by a new monkey. When the new monkey tried climbing for the banana the other monkeys grabbed, clawed and bit the new monkey until it learned not to climb. Then one by one the remaining four monkeys were replaced and one by one their replacements learned, through bites and beatings not to climb for the bananas.
The moral here is sometimes a culture can enforce rules and regulations, even through the use of intimidation and violence long after the reason for the rule is forgotten.
In like manner, I know some religious innocents have long believed committed same sex partnerships to be as sin, but as I have written before, there is no place in the New Testament does anyone of God’s chosen voices say committed same sex partnerships is a sin.
I hope you will let your elderly companions read this comment. I hope they would look closely at God’s word and not be like the monkeys who condemn without knowing the truth. Truth is one of the first words in the original letter; I agree it is important.
An hour ago I got a call from a monkey who said Camilla gave him a banana if he would vote yes on the marriage amendment.
Camilla Gorilla,
I think you have me confused with your weak, ex-brother-in-law. You and I both know that’s untrue and you’re just making things up to save face. I understand. That’s a benefit of being a thinking person though – understanding, intelligence, tolerance, acceptance…. having interesting friends, not being a walking, social barbiturate. I will continue to pray that one day you’ll grow up a little (lot) into big girl pants and be able to experience a taste of those virtues yourself.
Lady, I’ve repeatedly asked you how gay marriage would impact you and you have no response… just a lot of boring verbal diarrhea about insane dogmatic fluff that is the ultimate remedy for insomnia. I guess the answer is that you have no answer, you’re just afraid? That, or you don’t read what you’re replying to, you just mash your butt on the keyboard and hope for the best. I feel it’s my moral obligation to inform you that whichever it is, it’s not working.
I’d ask what the great depression and WW2 have to do with the topic but you may become overloaded and forget where your keys are or something. Plus, you’re clearly falling back on the non-thinking tactic of ignoring the issue at hand and trying to argue with metaphors and comparisons. Ie, if gay marriage is allowed then dog marriage will be allowed. That simpleton scheme may earn a drunken “Yeah!” at the Thanksgiving table but it makes me yawn.
Let’s try one last time using simple, single-digit numbers.
Benjamin Righteous: Straight marriage = okay (+1) + gay marriage = okay (+1) = 2 points.
Camill-uhhhhhhhhhhh: Straight marriage = okay (+1) + gay marriage = brain implosion (should be -1 but I’ll give you a 0) = 1 point.
Who wins the marriage support contest? Me.
Also, voting one way or another to spite me seems like something a pea-brain derelict would do. Forget voter ID laws, we need intelligence tests to earn voting voting privileges.
The good news is that the anti-marriage amendment will fail and homosexuals will be given the right to marry and it’s going to be a nice step forward for society. If you’re lucky, your neighborhood will be the first to integrate, that would *rock*. It would be good for you, you may realize how silly you’re being.
REASON TO NOT FORCE SOCIETY TO ACCEPT PERVERTED LIFESTYLES:
Leviticus 18:22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. 23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. 24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’”
Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
REASONS MERLE SHOULD BE RELEGATED TO COFFEE FETCHING DUTY:
Please see any of Merle’s posts.
Merle, no one is disputing there are many references in the Bible to “free” uncommitted sex, heterosexual and otherwise,but can’t you find ONE prohibition against committed same sex partnerships? If not, it might be wise to stop writing things that are not the truth. There IS a Commandment against that sort of thing.
Merle Hexum, do you have any thoughts of your own? If I don’t believe anything the bible says on any subject, why on earth do you think quoting it will make me see things differently.
Richard, setting aside your thoughts on the accuracy and validity of the Bible, have you ever read a post from Merle or anyone else where God condemns committed partnerships between members of the same sex?
BTW–I’m not sure a monkey would risk a blast from a firehose to get a banana for Camilla. hahahaha
You are right Larry, no where in the bible (regardless the version) does God or Jesus say anything, much less condemn, committed same sex relationships.
I do recall quite a bit about “false witness” and lying, and twisting the words or meaning and subtracting from or adding to the passages or meanings.
There was also something about “honoring thy Father and Mother”, which I take to mean honoring senior citizens by not lying to them or misleading them or using them for one’s own personal purposes.
Richard alias Acker alias Chipmunk and Larry alias Walt and Phaedrus alias Benjamin, please keep up your virulent attacks against marriage. You are helping believers become aware that the anti-marriage gang such as yourself are people who have hate and contempt for people of faith who believe in marriage and family. I have an email list of more than three hundred people whom I have encouraged to view your nasty comments. My inbox floweth over with mail from people who are becoming aware of how venemous the “fair minded” anti marriage crowd truly are. Many are commenting that the gay marriage crowd are a refuge for God haters. Please keep on with the invective, you are awakening many people who formerly thought of you as harmless or well meaning.
For those who are in favor of protecting marriage: gardez la foi.
Once again Camillabill, you are the one who is against marriage. I on the other hand am for marriage.
Your group of haters are for restricting marriage. Just as you are for restricting voting rights and restricting women’s rights and for restricting women’s wage rates. Basically you and your hate group are for restricting the rights of anyone who refuses to march in lockstep with your fanatical religious views. There can be no doubt which side you would have been on during the Spanish Inquisition.
Actually, Camilla “more bland than” Vanilla… I think what people will see is that when it comes to articulating why you think what you do, you’re a complete failure. Your communicative deficiencies lead me to believe you just don’t like gay people (probably don’t even know any) and are trying to find a less hateful, roundabout way of saying so. “Nice” try, but I’m not your weak step-father, I see through you.
Again, I’ve asked you countless times how gay marriage would impact your life and you have provided zero response. Is your brain so deprived of oxygen you can’t even list *one* way? Just one, real life, pragmatic illustration… that’s all I ask. Don’t cite the old testament, don’t put me to sleep with dogmatic diatribes, just tell me how your life would be negatively impacted if one man you don’t know married another man you don’t know.
Can you do that? Pretty please? I’ll even give you a Gummi Bear if you do.
And thank you for your blessing, I will continue to speak out against prejudice and moron-speak.
On a related side note… I think I have come up with the absolute perfect use for the vacant state mental hospital. Lets… turn it back into a state mental hospital! I don’t want to name names but it’s obvious there is a need for such a place.
For the three people Camilla is spamming into reading this thread…
First off… I understand your frustration. How trying it must be to have a delusional and bossy fanatic in your life. You’d hope people would grow out of that phase around 2nd grade or so but trust me, we all know someone like that. Just take a deep breath and have patience; like a fart in the wind, she’ll get bored and go away soon enough. Second of all, lets take a look at her broken logic.
Camilla, if you’re reading this, tread carefully. We’re about to encroach into advanced territory (i.e., words with more than 2 syllables) and we don’t need you hurting yourself.
I feel it’s necessary to say something about the root of the word “fundamentalism.” That word is fundamental. It means “strict adherence to.”
I’d like to introduce another word, that word is “substantiate.” It means “to prove or confirm.”
All of us as humans should have a fundamental respect for substantiated truth. Regardless of opinions on religion, we can probably all agree that lying and making things up is wrong and should be punished with a soap bar in the mouth.
Why is this important? Because, unfortunately, Camilla is showing a fundamental disrespect for substantiated truth. Baseless lies with big, scary words aren’t the truth. And, in a tremendously pukish move, she’s taking it one step further and doing so with the intention of misleading people. Yuck.
For example, Camilla fibbed and said I’m a “God hater.” Sounds like a big bold statement but… based on what? Neither I, or anyone else, have said Christianity should be illegal and all the churches should be shut down (they should lose tax exempt status but that’s a separate issue).
Camilla says I am, “attacking marriage.” This one is a pickle… I already explained, using a very simple “1+1″ example, that I am in favor of marriage. I’m not sure how to make it more simple. Perhaps someone should contact the Daily Journal and let them know some sort of crayon/white board option should be enabled on the website? We may just have to tack it up as being over her head.
Camilla says I “hate people of faith.” Again, untrue and based on nothing. I don’t have enough hours in the day or expendable energy to hate anyone. Too much effort. The rational truth is that I have a number of Christian friends. Fortunately though, my Christian friends are not jerks who try to get in the very personal business of people they don’t know. More fibs from silly-dilly Camilla. Someone get the lady some Irish Spring.
Obviously, no thinking person is going to hop on Camilla’s stinky, lie-based trash wagon.
Incidentally, if anyone is curious why I support gay marriage. It’s very simple- I have gay friends, I have gay co-workers, and I have gay neighbors. They’re nice people who haven’t inconvenienced or sabotaged me in the slightest. They are US citizens, they have rights, and I’d wager if we got the score sheet out, most of them contribute positively to society far more than someone like Camilla could ever hope to in 15 lifetimes, given what her current take on life appears to be anyway (self appointed busy-body, master of the Universe).
There is one God, and it’s not Camilla.
Still waiting for some evidence of Biblical support for your position; that being we should deny rights God has given to all his people. My belief is God has never condemned committed partnerships between people of the same sex.
But beyond that consider how silly it is to use Leviticus 18:22 for the purpose Merle suggests–‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Is such a thing anatomically possible?
Larry, you can take it up with God whether that is possible, He wrote it, I was just quoting Him
Merle–let me ask a follow up question–was the Bible only written for the ears of men? If not, then this verse seems to suggest all women should be lesbians.
Mr.Olson,
You’ve made it clear that you are not a Christian and that you do not believe in God. So why are you commenting on this thread? Mr. Twist was addressing Christians. His plea is to “Christians”. Also, why do you quote the bible if you do not believe in its’ authenticity and in its origin?
God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve!
Maybe if you guys want to read the bible you should go back to the beginning, read Genesis.
Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Everyone, regardless of their spiritual condition, deep down knows that same-sex unions are disgusting. A person’s mind has to be sick and twisted to believe otherwise.
Anyone who would call themself a Christian and condone the behavior, is a false convert, has never been born again, and does not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them.
Hahahahaha… it finally comes out!
Both the reason for your prejudice, and the milk from my nose when I laughed reading it.
No Merle, Not “everyone regardless of their spiritual condition, knows deep down same sex unions are discusting.” Certainly those who have been in a long term committed, same sex partnerships do not believe they are discusting. You might beieve same sex committed partnerhsips are discusting but that is your opinion. You might find many, many others, maybe even a solid majority of people who agree with you–but the Bible does not.
“There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
It is one thing to lack knowledge, it’s yet another thing to reject truth. Ignorance can be fixed with acceptance of truth, but stubborness is beyond repair.
Merle, regardless to whom Paul Twist originally wrote his letter, he chose to have it published in the local newspaper and in this public forum. Until the conservatives get around to restricting my right to respond in writing, I will do so.
As to why I as a non-believer can quote the bible, I will tell you that I can quote “Wuthering Heights” without believing Heathcliff and Kathy are real people.
To our silent readers—you’re right; I’ve been direct, determined and disagreeable on this thread maybe even to the point of mocking one or more of the commentators. Here’s why. About four years ago, I, a man who does not make many promises, made a promise to surrender my silence and timidity and to defend the Christian faith. It’s not so much that God needs to be defended but there is so much misinformation being heaped upon the path Christ walked, that non-believers and even some Christians new to this journey have a difficult time seeing God’s true face. I have found the biggest threat to Christianity is not from outside sources but from within. There are people who seem to understand nothing about human nature, our physical beings, and nothing about the true nature of our souls, our spiritual beings. They seem to have substituted one set of rules, rules they think control our animal natures, with another set of rules, this second set of rules being rules they created from the words within the Bible. There was a rich man who asked Jesus, “What must I do to be saved?” The answer, ‘sell all the things you have put your faith in, those things you have believed made you secure, and simply follow me.’ In other words, adopt a life on the edge of things, a place where you feel at great risk but where you KNOW you are not, where you can experience God’s guiding hand and protecting shield just as the flowers of the field and the birds of the air. He said nothing about giving up old rules and adopting a new set of rules for God, Himself, offers the only security strong enough to shelter our eternal souls and give peace to our troubled minds in this confusing world.
The letter writer began by writing of the need to rely on the truth and then did not write the truth. In the comments that followed the truth has become evident and the untruth has been defended; defended by those who claim to be supported by some sort of new rules. We heard reference to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, places where people are said to have made the opposite of committed relationships a way of life. We read reference to the Garden of Eden where God planted a tree so people would have the freedom to make choices, even choices that were not in their best interests. We did not consider Hebrews 13:4 but the last few words of that verse are particularly relevant, “FOR GOD WILL JUDGE”. Notice the words GOD will judge!
So what is it those who promote the “marriage” amendment are trying to do? Stop people from making known their commitment to a single partner, take away the right God has given people to make choices, establish a set of rules they consider more righteous than God’s and then to take God’s place and judge the behaviors of others.
To Merle, you have the courage to write things many people believe are true. You write them well. While I believe you are misguided and like the leader of the Donner Party lead people on a dangerous path you are needed in this world of thoughtful discussion. You give voice to those who would pick a little of God’s word from here and add a little from God’s word there creating rules never intended but that gives me the opportunity to respond with what I believe to be the truth.
Larry/Walt/whoever,no more math, facts, and an accurate understanding of history (which, of course, only you have the capability of discerning)? You are the epitome of the Marxist infiltrator within Chritianity , purposeful in your determination to destroy Christianity by twisting and ditorting from within its actual meaning. Relentless in your duality of posing as a godly personage while undercutting God’s Word with athiestic Marxist arguments which slowly, inexorably erode the faith of those who give you the benefit of a hearing. The serpent in the tree urging Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit – doubt in the Divine Word of God as revealed to mankind.
I expect your reaction, in keeping with your masked deceit, will be along the lines of “Who, me? Moi? I of noble heart, unerring logical defense of the real truth, infallible analyst of all that can be explained by my incomparable grasp of math, logic, facts, and my indisputably brilliant knowlege of what is actually the historical record? I for one am not booking your act. Sell that nonsense to the kindergarten classes of your fellow radicals. Yours and Acker’s and Phaedrus/Benjamin’s
good cop/bad cop routine is comically inept, yet dangerous to our society which you are all determined to subjugate beneath your Marxist heels.
Are you still talking?
Jeeze, lady, what in the world are you even trying to say?
Marxist.. uhh, propaganda… uhh.. socialism…uhh… monster trucks!
I hate to write someone off as hopeless but you sure are, aren’t you? 9,000 requests for you to list just one way your life is negatively impacted by gay people and you can’t/won’t do it. You’re more dense than your mother’s angel food cake.
You have no basis for any of this, you’re just being a silly fool. It seems that you’re only full of mindless hate and rage against people who have done you no wrong, am I wrong? Truly on par with the worst worthless pukes. Disgusting. Go crawl back under your rock and stay there. You’re polluting the air the rest of us are trying to breathe.
If Larry’s comments are such that they “inexorably erode the faith” of others…..their faith must have been a mile wide and a half inch deep to begin with.
And if Gods best creations can be easily tricked by talking snakes…what does that say about “Gods Best”?
Adam and Eve must have been republicans, no one else would have been taken in so easily. I’ll bet they would even have fallen for that line about helping poor people by giving wealthy people more money. Really, they had to be republicans, one killed the other one to get his money and then tried to lie to his senior citizen parents about the murder.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, above Cammy’s head… but then again so is the wading pool. Great point though, nonetheless.
You nailed the nincompoop opinion right on the head. Afraid of something? Gays, political discourse, people who believe in science… don’t discuss it or confront your petty fears, just make them illegal! It’s easier than actually using the brain God provided right?
Or perhaps our brains are the real result of the fall of man. That tricky thing up there that makes us question foolishness and gets our naughty parts to tingle. Uh oh!
There was a farmer who lived on the farm next to ours at least until the early 1960’s. He planted his corn according to the time tested method he had learned from his father which his father had learned from his father before him. Rows were 36 inches apart, three seeds per hill with the hills 16 inches apart and never planted earlier than May 10th. He believed fertilizer was unnecessary, irrigation too expensive and chemical weed control too new to be trusted. If his way was good enough for his father then it was good enough for him. By season’s end his corn was almost chest high and the ears were usually at least 5 inches long. He believed he had done and was doing everything the right way, the way God had intended.
I don’t know how many readers know anything about growing corn but when you drive out in the country this week take a look at the corn fields. Does there look to be a more fulfilling method of growing corn than our neighbor’s time tested method, one that returns greater yields?
“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” he told the Des Moines Register in an interview posted on the newspaper’s website. AP 10/09/12
While some would say this is a sensible position it does seem to be at odds with his previous statements and at odds with some of his most ardent supporters. My question, and this is relevant to the point of the orginal letter writer, “Where will a liar lead?”