Archived Story

Historic tax increases approved [UPDATED]

Published 9:32am Friday, May 3, 2013 Updated 11:36am Friday, May 3, 2013

Following a nearly nine-hour debate on the Minnesota House floor, House Democrats approved a $2.6 billion tax increase proposal that will impact every Minnesotan.

All Republicans voted to oppose the measure. Their bill will result in a large portion of Minnesota filers receiving an income tax increase with income as low as $22,000. The House Democrat plan also would raise taxes on Internet purchases, sports memorabilia, cigarettes, and alcohol, to name a few.

This would be the largest tax increase in the last three decades. They also are proposing hundreds of millions more in fees, bringing the total price tag to some $3 billion.

This proposed increase is so big it is hard to comprehend. Estimates show this would cost $550 per person in Minnesota.

It really concerns me what the impact will be if we take this amount of money out of the economy and give it to government. Our economy is growing and recovering from the Great Recession, but this could deal us a significant setback.

It also concerns me Democrats say part of the reason they are raising taxes on tobacco and alcohol is to discourage usage. What happens if that is indeed the case and behavior is steered? What are the long-term affects?

We could find ourselves in big trouble down the road if we increase state spending based and tie ourselves to sources of revenue in decline.

Democrats said they were going to “tax the rich” but the simple fact is this: They are raising income taxes on Minnesotans in every tax bracket. Everyone will pay more for beer, cigarettes, rental cars, baseball cards and the list goes on and on.

We can make government more efficient and more effective. We should give this recovery a chance and keep Minnesota on the path to a healthier economy.

 

Rep. Bud Nornes

Minnesota House

 

  • BrendanJanssen

    Well then, as a state Rep. you should understand that paying taxes is not eliminating money from the economy. The government has and will always continue to be one of the biggest entity that stimulates the economy. This takes money. That money eventually gets divided out back to the economy through projects and wages. It all circulates and that is what matters. Due to inflation rates vs. interest rates at this time, saving money is worse than spending it in regards to the economy.

  • Elliot Dallavalle

    Funny, in July of 2011, Rep. Kelby Woodard (R) Belle Plaine, ran an ad in the local paper that proudly said the Republican legislature proposed the largest spending increase in MN history. Now you’re telling me it wasn’t?

    One thing that is different with this spending increase is the fact that it is paid for. When the Repubs proposed their spending increase, what was missing was how that was going to be paid for. One of their proposed plans to pay for the Vikings stadium was through gambling receipts. Guess that didn’t work out huh? And the Repub senators at the time when they had the majority left us with the bill for the Brobkord affair, which is running at around $300,000 now.

  • Walt Henry

    There has got to be a time when politicians STOP stretching the truth for selfish political gains. Too many simpletons are following their leaders without thinking things through on their own. Bud, I’ m disappointed in how far this letter strays from the truth.

    • J Mullins

      For some time now Larry, Curly, and Moe, aka Larry Erickson/Walt Henry; “Curly” Richard Olson/Acker Johnson/Chipmunk; and “Moe” Phaedrus Wolf, have sufficed as the three stooges deployed by the Democrats to assault and insult peoples’ intelligence by spreading misinformation and disinformation, and promulgate the leftist theology of HEAL – Hate, Envy, Anger, and Lies.
      But, apparently the HEALers now need to increase their ranks as more and more folks have become aware of the idiocy of leftism. Hence, Brandun and “Elliott Dullaville have joined in the anti-reason propaganda effort.
      Brandun, wherever you have been matriculating, you have failed to grasp that paying heavy taxes does take money from the money producing economy of business and concentrates it in the hands of big spending pols to spend on people who will keep them in office. Nor do you understand that savings provides funds to be loaned to be used for starting companies which hire people into non government jobs, to expand such companies, to finance the construction of homes, building, thus creating more non government jobs.Government creates only government jobs or jobs dependent on government, and adds nothing to the economy except government cost and debt.
      “Elliott Dullaville” you conveniently fail to recollect that the Vikings stadium bill passed with a majority of DFL votes and a few GOP votes-and most of the GOP who voted for it were rejected by even their fellow Republicans in the following elections.
      Larry/Walt whoever you are today,tell us how Bud strays from the truth . I have read several articles over the past several weeks in your own socialist MSP Red Star and Tribune, and what Bud says here has also been reported
      in that socialist rag. So, if the Red Star Tribune reports it, it is gospel, Holy Writ for your fellow socialists, but if Bud re-states what is in the Red Star Tribune, it is, in your words, straying from the truth?

      • Walt Henry

        Bud, do you see what I mean?

      • Richard Olson

        “For some time now Larry, Curly, and Moe, aka Larry Erickson/Walt Henry; “Curly” Richard Olson/Acker Johnson/Chipmunk; and “Moe” Phaedrus Wolf, have sufficed as the three stooges deployed by the Democrats to assault and insult peoples’ intelligence”

        That’s rich….all eleven of us, together, at one time, combined could not “insult your intelligence”. So we got 2more…that must mean there are 47 of us. (tea bagger math, in case you were wondering)

      • Phaedrus

        Seriously? I’m content to let you argue amongst yourselves, I’m not terribly inclined to enter into a “name- calling” contest or variations on the “my dad can beat up your dad” arguments (it’s too 6th grade-ish for my tastes). But if you want to drag me into this, I’ll play (although, given our history, I would think you’d want to avoid it, but given your dislike of history and preference for fantasy, I imagine you’re thinking “this time will be different” – we’ll see).

        1. I don’t think it’s necessary to insult your intelligence (“it’s better to remain silent and appear the fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”).

        2. Calling something “disinformation” and “misinformation” doesn’t make it so, for that you need actual evidence. You realize that calling others liars without any evidence that what they’re saying is false, makes you a liar, right? Hypocrisy fits you like a glove, doesn’t it?

        3. If the “ranks of the left” have increased, it’s almost certainly due to more people recognizing the “idiocy of the right” (you can find it on AM radio just about any time)

        4. “the anti-reason propaganda effort.” Which party wants to remove “critical thinking” from schools and requires their members (if they don’t want to be ostracized as RINO’s) to uncritically accept and then promulgate whatever nonsense comes from their infallible “leaders”? That’s right, the GOP.

        5. Clearly Jerome (whoever he is) doesn’t understand that investments in infrastructure are awarded to private contractors (creating private sector jobs), or that schoolteachers, police officers and government workers in general are actual people who help create demand that help grow the economy, or that the two largest private employers in the region (Lake Region Healthcare and Ottertail Power) probably wouldn’t exist without government assistance, or the fact that government makes private business possible (what good are contracts if they can’t be enforced, or creating goods if there is no infrastructure to transport them?). (This is why I don’t have to insult your intelligence – you have to show some first.)

  • J Mullins

    To the Journal. I am advising Rep Nornes that two attempts to post comments exposing the untruths of Messrs Janssen, Dallaville, and Erickson have failed to be posted.
    Why are you protecting those who attack Bud Nornes and blocking the comments who defend him?

    • Richard Olson

      At least three times a week one or more of my comments gets caught in the journals filter for whatever reason.
      But when one of Jerome’s rants gets captured ….Wow, it’s another left wing conspiracy to silence him and tea baggers everywhere. It’s tyranny of the first order, the paper want’s to take Jerome’s freedom and silence his dissenting voice in the wilderness.

      Hey Jerome, maybe it’s some more of those roving union thugs with some time on their hands now that they don’t have to chase your pet state senator around the halls of the capitol. Yeah, that’s gotta be it…phantom union thugs sunk in the journal building last night and planted a bug that surreptitiously deletes Jerome’s comments.

    • BrendanJanssen

      Jerome, you act as if you are 12. I advise the DJ to look into this and ban you if so. Underage and on the internet, not a good combination. I mean, with the way you act on here and your lack of basic economic understanding it’s quite obvious.

      The level of ignorance and stupidity on here is remarkable.

  • Elliot Dallavalle

    Using Bud’s arithmetic, we conclude this:

    There are approximately 600 million packs of cigarettes sold in the state of MN annually. With 5.2 million citizens of MN, one can assume that a family of four will smoke 460 packs of cigarettes annually. This expense results in a total loss of income annually of $3220, or $805 each given a pack of cigarettes costs $7.

    How does that work Bud?

  • crucified

    If tax increases stimulate the economy, then we should confiscate 100% of people’s income and we could have a booming economy. Just one question’ where has this wealth redistribution (or as you call it “money divided out”) ever worked? Russia, China, East Germany, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Czechoslovak, Yugoslavia, etc, etc.?

    • Richard Olson

      There you go Merle. Cite an extreme example to make a stupid argument. If you want your question answered you need go no further than the Clinton Administration. Or perhaps you would like the Bush system where the wealthy got tax cuts which resulted in the lowest job creation rate in our recorded history.

      When you say idiotic things like “If tax increases stimulate the economy, then we should confiscate 100% of people’s income and we could have a booming economy”, it’s like saying “We should gulp down a barrel full and we would never get sick” when someone says “take an aspirin, you’ll feel better”. Grow up Merle, it’s not 1953 and pretending to be Joe McCarthy is still stupid.

  • Elliot Dallavalle

    I see Merle woke up from his 3 day self-burial in his backyard tomb and now, after coming out of his Limbaugh- induced delirious state, he’s produced a Merlesque gem of a question.

    Sorry to see Merle that RO just squashed it with honesty, facts, and reason.

    Try again!

    • J Mullins

      Hi Larry/Walt/Eliot

  • crucified

    where has this wealth redistribution (or as you call it “money divided out”) ever worked?

    • Phaedrus

      Norway, Sweden, Finland….

  • crucified

    Phadman; if you like socialism soooooooo much, why don’t you move to one of these European nations. Leave America and capitalsim alone!

    • Richard Olson

      Merle you asked a question, you received an answer. Since you have no rejoinder, you put your hands on your hips like a petulant child and say “Phadman; if you like socialism soooooooo much, why don’t you move to one of these European nations”. Then you most likely stuck out your tongue, jammed your thumbs into your ears, flapped your fingers and said…nah, nah, nah, nah nah….I can’t hear you!

      • crucified

        It wasn’t a petulant child response. It was a serious response. If I lived in the only country on earth which believed in the economics of socialism and the religion of humanism, and there was another country where the majority of the people in the country loved God and believed in capitalism; rather than trying to change the only country where others could enjoy their bondage I would simply move to a country which believed like I believe. My response was not how you interpret it to be. If you like socialism and you know of countries who are successfully practicing socialism, just go there and enjoy. It’s rather mean-spirited to force the entire world to live under such bondage.

    • Walt Henry

      Merle, you are the who quotes socialists. To answer your question ” What do you call someone who says one thing and does another,” I can’t answer for I can’t judge the works of someone I have never met. But I can guess, in this one case, I might call him Merle. :)

      • Richard Olson

        Hey Larry, how much do you want to bet that when Merle retires from pushing a pencil at the loan company he applies for Social Security and becomes a full fledged Socialist.

        • crucified

          RO you are naive if you believe there is going to be anything left in the coffers to pay me (and all those who were forced to pay in) back by the time Comrad Obama is done.

          • Richard Olson

            Gee Merle, I didn’t know President Obama was your “friend”. Have you known each other long? Does your friend President Obama call you “Comrade Merle”?

        • Walt Henry

          Richard, Did you see the House Republicans have a new idea? Rather than raise the debt ceiling and pay the debts the congress has incurred, they are trying to pass a bill that will pay bond holders (those who have loaned the US money) first and everyone else, including our government employees (the servicemen and women) if/when money becomes available. What is the single largest bond holder of US securities? The Social Security Trust Fund. Looks like our socialist retirement fund will be secure after all–even for those who claim to hate Social Security.

      • crucified

        Larry and all of his like-minded atheist friends are always in full agreement. Larry, you need to meet someone in order to judge their works? I believe in capitalism and benevolence. You believe in forced wealth redistribution. And you have the gall to accuse me of being the socialist? The pot calling the kettle black.

        • Walt Henry

          Merle, your scale is out of balance. You claim a self-avowed atheist can’t have Christ-like compassion. You claim a Christian who also believes in Christ-like compassion can’t have that in common with the self-avowed atheist for the Christian will then not be a Christian. So I say, if you quote the words of a self-avowed socialist you MUST, on the scale you’ve created, be a socialist. See what happens when we try to judge the hearts of another person? Best leave such judgments to
          God, unless of course, you are now willing to publically proclaim your socialist leanings.

          • Walt Henry

            Merle, I forgive you.

        • Richard Olson

          Let’s be clear about what you mean when you say “forced wealth redistribution”. You mean “taxes”, you Merle, like too many skinflint conservatives don’t want to pay taxes. You want to live in the United States, reap it’s protection and benefits but you want it for free. You don’t want to pay your fair share, you want to be a free rider. You just don’t want to be called a cheap free rider so you come up with a catch phrase that allows you to pretend to be a victim.

          Oh woe is Merle, the big bad government is making him pay taxes. Merle doesn’t deserve this unfair treatment. Merle is special, he should get to ride on the backs of others and make excuses for his special treatment and position.

    • Phaedrus

      Mer-Man: What I believe isn’t important/relevant to the topic at hand, and what “you say I believe” is even less important/relevant.

      The reasons I’m staying are probably similar to the reasons you have for staying in MN and not moving to a state that doesn’t have an income tax at the state level.

      You can’t pretend to be a defender of liberty and free speech, on the one hand, while attempting to limit the liberties/free speech of those who don’t agree with you by suggesting that they’d be “happier” someplace else, on the other. That’s a characteristic of dictators/tyrants; they don’t want a diversity of opinion either.

  • Richard Olson

    Merle…So the social security trust fund will be empty? I bet that would make you as happy as a pig in poop.
    More gloom and doom from the conspiracy buffoons and nattering nabobs of negativism who have been claiming the fund would go broke since 1935.

    But here I am, retired and enjoying the fruits of my labor, the forward thinking of Francis Perkins who said “I came to Washington to work for God, FDR, and millions of forgotten plain common workingmen” and the best President this country has ever had Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

    Hey Merle, do you want to be as happy as I am? Why don’t you take the same advise you touted to Phaedrus Wolf and move to one of those Capitalist countries where you won’t be forced to pay into our social security insurance fund. Besides I don’t know what you’re worried about. A big fat self-sufficient, self-supporting, “I built it myself” freedom loving, tyranny hating, god fearing capitalist like yourself must have millions stored away. I’m sure you don’t need social security. Just think of the money you’ve paid into the fund as a donation, your own version of “Christian Charity”, your tithe to become “your brothers keeper”.

    So until that day when you pack your bags bound for greener pastures, you just keep paying into the system. Knowing that some of your money is going to me…an atheist and socialist. As a matter of fact, just to bug you, I think I may start drinking and smoking again and spend some of your money on sin. If you weren’t such a limp rag I would invite you along for a good night on the town, drinking, smoking some weed and chasing some floozies. Just think of all the self-righteous pomp you could heap on people in a capitalist bar where nothing is free.

  • Elliot Dallavalle

    So in reviewing ol’ Bud’s letter, I happened to just catch this phrase:

    “It also concerns me Democrats say part of the reason they are raising taxes on tobacco and alcohol is to discourage usage. What happens if that is indeed the case and behavior is steered? What are the long-term affects?”

    Now I wonder what Bud is getting at here. Is he bemoaning the fact that maybe kids will see tobacco as “too expensive” and therefore not take up the life-long and destructive habit? Is he upset that possibly more adults will be discouraged and finally comprehend how much money they fork out daily to fullfill their nicotine habit? Is he worried that more adults will reduce their alcohol consumption and less people will be convicted of DUIs?

    His statement, on its own merit, is unusually bizarre. By all accounts, Bud Nornes, is concerned that reducing tobacco and alcohol usage will negatively affect someones’ behavior and have long-term negative affects. And I thought that keeping kids and adults from becoming addicted to nicotine and alcohol was something good for our society? All those medical studies that show how these addictive drugs have driven up the costs of our health insurance premiums must have be wrong then, right Bud?

    God, what is wrong with me. And I thought I was doing the right thing with drinking responsibly.

    Smoke um if you got um, and drink till you stumble. Then make sure you thank ol’ Bud for setting you straight.

    • Walt Henry

      5,344,861 – Jul 2011
      Source: U.S. Census Bureau, $2.6 billion, $550 per person in Minnesota ???????

      • holly

        Come on Larry/Walt – read the sentence in between – (House Democrats) “also are proposing hundreds of millions more in fees, bringing the total price tag to some $3 billion.”
        $3 billion / 5,344,861 = $561. Facts matter. So does reading comprehension.

        • Walt Henry

          Passed equals proposed and signed into law equals passed the House and $2.6 increase means no taxes were reduced. What we have here are the numbers of Chicken Little, not facts and not math wxcept to those don’t believe in such things.

          • holly

            Evading the topic of your poor reading comprehension and math skills, Larry? You were the one that posed the question as to how Bud got to the $550 number. I merely pointed it out to you. And the “Chicken Little” reference is your OPINION. Facts, math and good reading comprehension, Larry. Work on those.

    • holly

      Not a bizarre statement at all Elliot. The “long-term effects” refer to tax revenues. The statement that you quoted was followed by “We could find ourselves in big trouble down the road if we increase state spending based and tie ourselves to sources of revenue in decline.” Though that sentence is grammatically awkward, it should be obvious to anyone with even a 3rd-grade level of reading comprehension what Bud was saying. Evidently you didn’t get it.

      • Elliot Dallavalle

        Holly – So if Bud believes that revenue from “sin” taxes will generate less and less income over time because it would deter those from smoking and drinking, he must then advocate the complete opposite? He would like to see tobacco and alcohol taxes reduced or eliminated completely thereby providing a steady and increasing source of revenue for the state. After all, if you completely eliminate these taxes then more people would consume those products, according to Bud’s thinking.

        So if you again look at my response to Bud’s paragraph, I am sure you will find I was absolutely correct in analyzing it. Bud has no interest in detering kids or adults from consuming these products. He would otherwise prefer a means to increase consumption or hook more kids on tobacco.

        Is Bud just looking for more enablers here?

        • holly

          Do you know Bud personally? The way you talk, you seem to know EXACTLY what he thinks. You’ve taken one sentence out of context and twisted it to fit your distorted view of the world. “Bud has no interest in detering kids or adults from consuming these products. He would otherwise prefer a means to increase consumption or hook more kids on tobacco.” REALLY? Pure conjecture on your part utilizing a straw man argument. You don’t know him. You don’t know jack.

          • Elliot Dallavalle

            Oh come on now Holly, no need to get yourself worked up over this. Try taking a few deep breaths for a minute. You were the one that suggested what Bud was saying regarding revenue in decline. I merely interpreted his unusual paragraph the way he actually described it. If his 3rd grade sentence structure appears “grammatically awkward” well that is his problem. In any case I believe I have a point.

  • Walt Henry

    I thought I could catch a carp with just a shiny hook. This time I needed to add a kernel of corn. (I must be slipping)
    The bill Bud was referring to was HR 677–the Omnibus Tax Bill which passed the House on April 24th. Here’s the facts–98.9% of Minnesotans will NOT pay higher income taxes. 27,300 taxpayers with taxable incomes above $226,000 for singles and $400,000 would pay at a new top rate of 8,49% or on the average an additional $3,700. (Averages just as the $550 Bud used are pretty deceptive–even Holly fell into that trap). Additionally 13,000 taxpayers who earn MORE than $500,000 will pay an additional average tax increase of $38,000.
    Also–it seems Bud double counted for included in this bill are tax increases on both alcohol (1st increase in 26 years) and cigarettes. (The increase in tax on cigarettes, in fact, even when added to the existing tax on smokes, will not come close to paying for the cost to the state for health care of those who smoke and are receiving health care via state programs.)
    Where will the money go? Into the pockets of 1 million homeowners and renters who are eligible for property tax refunds with the average homeowner seeing an increase of $212 and the average renter and increase of $41. Also $110 million in state aid would be going to cities and counties so they can hold down property taxes. And lastly, the state will pay back the money they forced schools to borrow on the state’s behalf.
    So it seems most taxpayers will not see an increase in income taxes, a lowering of their property taxes and honest funding for their schools. Is this the impression you got from Bud’s letter?
    (And Holly, might be wise to stay out of the water)
    This bill has only passed the House and as we all know it takes action by the Senate and the Governor to become law. (Chicken Little)

    • Richard Olson

      Regardless the subject, alias Holly can find some infinitesimal morsel of an atom to bring her boiling rage to the surface and lash out at anyone who dares peep while she demands silence.

      • holly

        As usual, you add nothing to the discussion – show up late – maybe you should e-mail Chipmunk to see what he thinks (hahahaha).

        And Larry, if people make their feelings known about a pending bill they are “chicken littles”. I suppose they should just wait until it is voted on and signed before they say anything. You are truly a piece of work.

        • Richard Olson

          Hey alias Holly…..peep, peep, peep, peep and one more just for good measurer, PEEP.

        • Walt Henry

          Holly, where in Bud’s letter is he accurate, thorough and honest? Those tings are important to some of us. Without them the letter writer seems to be doing nothing but trying to rally his base with half truths and fears of things that will never become law. Wouldn’t we be better off with facts, math and an accurate understanding of history? Don’t our elected officials owe us that much?

  • Walt Henry

    Remember folks, in the last election a significant majority of Minnesotans voted to have our taxes raised to pay for things we’ve already purchased, and for commitments we have made to ourselves, our children and our environment. And to get government out of our bedrooms and assure that ALL Minnesotans who are eligible to vote are allowed to do so.

    • Elliot Dallavalle

      Trudat Larry. That is a little New Orleans slang for agreeing with your honest assesment of the facts. Appreciate it!

    • holly

      Larry – not sure about your math on the “significant majority” part – Dayton beat Emmer by 43.63% to 43.21% in 2010 (less than 10,000 votes, and far less than half of those who voted). Many of the House and Senate races were also very close.

      Beyond that – enjoy your time in the sun Larry. If the Democrats overplay their hand, they will be in the minority very soon. Stay tuned.

  • Richard Olson

    Hey Larry, you’ll have to cut alias Holly some slack when it comes to math, especially the difficult parts like adding and subtracting. I’ve been here for six days (MAY 3, 2013 AT 3:36 PM). She waltzes in and says I show up late. See, alias Holly May 9th, minus May 3rd equals six days. Just think about it for a while, it’ll eventually come to you. Peep! 

    • Walt Henry

      Richard, you have to admire Holly’s spunk. She seems to the only one of those on the right side of wrong who used a calculator. Too bad she entered inaccurate data. But you know something Richard? The facts contained in the bill are all online for everyone to read. The original is always a better source than the opinion of a politician.

  • crucified

    Larry, and Richard get a room!

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