Posted by anamerican (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here are a few facts for you...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/20/b...

Posted by otterfan (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama lacks common sense and anyone who still wants to vote for him....well, probably lacks it as well.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The population of the USA today is just stupid. Ignorant uneducated sheep. They get what they deserve if they elect McCain. The first thing McCain will do is start another war followed by reinstituting the draft. McCain said yesterday, he agreed with starting up the draft again. Maybe the draft will be a good thing. All these ignorant fools can put the uniform on, raise their right hand and swear, bend over and kiss their butts goodbye as they end as cannon fodder in some stupid foreign war. Just what we need. More young american barbarians killing innocents under the guise of patriotism. I thought america learned its lesson in Vietnam. I guess killing two million vietnamese people just didn't satisfy these blood thirsty fools. Just the opinion of a former Vietnam Combat Veteran who had to participate in the evil the USA perpetrated in that war last century. When will we learn to be a decent people and stay out of other countries. I guess never.

Posted by betterworld (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama offers us the chance to make our world a better place. He operates on a basis entirely different than big Washington. I truly beleive he will clean up our World image as money-grubbing, political buy-outs. We have become greedy, selfish and self-absorbed...there is only one way to go. Change is good, unfortunately for this ultra-conservative town run wholly on last decades' attitudes, Change is not an acceptable word.

I do not claim Party affiliation. However, I would never vote for John McCain based on how he sold out on John Kerry years ago with the Swift-Boat Veterans lies. He plain sold out on another War Hero so that he could stand with the Republican Party. He sold his soul, for politics. That's a NO vote for me....

Posted by GrammarNazi (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Here are a few facts for you" coupled with a link to an OPINION piece. Beautiful.

Your analysis of Beck's piece is 100% correct, as27. I especially liked how he says that he considers himself a human being. Was it his opposable thumbs that gave it away?

Posted by hometown (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MGDBOTTLED, There are some of us who went to Iraq and are now veteran's of that said war. Furthermore I am not a "barbarian". that implies that as a vet of this war my actions were reckless and immoral. Under no circumstances is that true nor true with any servicemember I served with. You have the right to rant but please don't lump our servicemembers and the powers that be together. Further unless you have been to Iraq you really don't have the knowledge required to speak of what exactly is going on there, much like I could never tell you how Vietnam was. Lastly, we are making great strides in Iraq and yes I am proud to say we are furthering the democratic cause as well as got rid of a cruel and vicious dictator. Further 63,000 americans dead after Vietnam and only what 5,000 in Iraq. I would say we are taking care of business and minimizing casualties. Don't get me wrong every life lost is important and deserving of our respect however there will always be a price to pay when furthering the cause of FREEDOM cause we all know it's not free. And I do say freedom because there is more freedom in Iraq then there has every been since the beginning of time. Finally, with Russia still a large threat and the mess in Afica and other parts of the world we will need a large standing military to help these places find peace and prosperity which can only truely begin by giving them the most presious gift we have...... FREEDOM!

Posted by otterfan (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hometown well said. Thank you for your service and for keeping our country FREE!!

Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fighting a war in Iraq is not doing anything to protect our freedom, hometown. I'm grateful for your service to our country but you're seriously dilluded if you think invading a soverign country based on false pretenses is protecting America, you're dead wrong.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 8:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I really hate to parse words; but I can really be anal about words. I said "the USA today". What does the population of the USA today even remotely have to do with Japan and Germany? All I ask is to get informed. Don't be ignorant and go and vote based solely on "guns and religion issues". Where have I heard that before? I respect anyone's vote so long as he/she is informed.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hometown; You're still young. Wait about 40 years and think back about what occurred in Iraq. You'll probably feel quite differently. Don't get me wrong. Some Wars can be justified. WWI and WWII come to mind. The War in Afganistan is just. Those were Wars we didn't ask for and simply had to respond to. The rest of these idiotic Wars are barbaric. Iraq included. There's no glory in war. No patriotism. Just blood and gore and inhumanity on both sides. Killing people for some political ideology is immoral. Don't forget we suffered a million american causalties in Vietnam. Not counting the mental anguish suffered by returning Vets who weren't even counted as causalties. I think McCain spent way too much time in that prison camp. He acts like he's got chip on his shoulder and wants to get even. You want scarey. Now that's scarey.

Posted by Jerry (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 9:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote mgbbottled "The population of the USA today is just stupid. Ignorant uneducated sheep." Yes indeed we should have stayed out of Japan and Germany!! I never thought I would ever hear things like this come out of the mouth of a fellow veteran. This sounds like something that a know it all, arrogant lawyer would say, not a veteran.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I said "the USA today". What's that have to do with Germany and Japan? And, you're right. Stupid was an inappropriate word as it implies limited intelligence. Ignorant is more appropriate as it implies being uninformed. Don't mistake passion for arrogance. The older I get, the more critical I get of my country. Also, when a person is engaged in combat, terror and fear and adrenalin take over and that person goes into survival mode and turns into a barbarian. I stand by that description. I've seen it happen.

Posted by hometown (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was "engaged in combat" and I relied on my training to keep me alive, and it worked. Terror, fear, and adrenaline?? You bet! But keeping your mind focused and following though with my training saved my life on several occasions. I had several times where I could have killed straight out of cold blood but I did not. That sir, is barbarianism. Was I mad, angry? Did I want to kill out of that anger? absolutely. It was the only time in my life that I have every seriously considered killing another human being and that was scary. However, as a reasonable and reletively morally straight person I knew that killing strictly to avenge my fellow Seabee's deaths would be wrong and that to do so would bring dishonor to those we lost on JUNE,5 2006. I was asked and required to be professional at all times including combat which is what makes us better and different from our enemies to begin with. Futher it also scares the enemy to think we have been trained well enough to keep our cool even under the toughest of situations. That's just one reason they won't fight us in open combat. I personally believe we should do whatever it takes to further the cause of freedom whenever we can. I don't entirely agree as to how this was handled either but the end result could have very positive conseqences for the U.S. for many years to come. Say what you want but Iraq is just one of the many places we have thrown down the gautlet and said enough is enough. We as Americans will not stand for people aimlessly murdering, raping and destoying anyone's life anymore. I NOT BUSH"S biggest fan either but becuase of Iraq and Afganistan we have reminded the rest of the world that we will not tolerate terrorism in any form and that we do have the musle to back it up if called to do so. That's the message heard around the world and that's what makes people nervous because they know that the wrong step could lead them into a conflict with us that no country in the world really wants. Peace and freedom remain the ultimate goal but as a patriot and an American I will not stand for anyone bulling their people whther it be in my backyard or Iraq. Just though that people should be reminded that our resposibilities as Americans don't stop at our borders. Freedom is a gift that if we don't cherish it and nurish it here and around the world then evil and oppression will surely rule the day.

Posted by Mel (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It would be nice if only the truth was repeated. But when it comes to politics you never know what to expect. "Selected not elected" comes to mind, also "Bush lied, people died", Bush planed 9-11, Bush people had the dike at New Orleans blown up, If Bush had signed Kyoto the hurricane would not have happened, and how about the "Global Warming" myth. How much of this is constantly repeated and people actually believe it.!!
The list could go on for pages.

Posted by goingfishing (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All of this banter really does not make a lot of difference to me. The bottom line is that Obama is so lacking in experience and exposure to world matters, economy and national politics that I simply cannot support him. To me, his inexperience has led to his flip flopping the past several months.

Posted by anamerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Goingfishing, don't you think that a 150 days in public service and absolutely no military experience, proclaiming an unidentifiable 'change' is enough to hold the most powerful position on earth? Me either.
PS Grammernazi, a good opinion piece will reference FACTS, and those facts aren't "beautiful".

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

News Flash from CNN. Looks like Iraq wants our troops out of their cities by June, 2009 and back on their bases. Must be getting tired of getting their doors kicked in. They want All troops out of their country by 2011. Democracy at work. Let's hope America complies and doesn't come up with some excuse like having to protect the oil companies operating over there.

Posted by hometown (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AS27,
I don't proclaim that we should invade anybody, however with freedom comes responsibility to help when we can.
I think perhaps you don't realize just how lucky you are to be an American and how bad it really is in many other parts of the world. You are safer now then you ever were in the sense that the rest of the world was really put on notice by us that certain things will not go unpunished and believe me our eneimies are listening and know it. They know the only thing waiting for them should they choose to try and hurt us is their death. Further, would you propose we do nothing about the tyrants of the world until it's too late? I have to say that unless you have seen with your own eyes the difference we have made over their then you really,really, don't know. Also we are being threatened everyday by extremists, terrorist and the like. Maybe they can't do much to us now but if we sit on our hands it's likely we will be attacked again. There is only one way to deal with folks like these and that's either killing them or keeping them on the run and off there toes.
Iraq is in the middle east and that's where the good majority of our enemies are. They wanted a fight and they got one. Currently they are losing. We didn't start this fight they did back in 1991 and because Saddam choose to disobey what the world was telling him though NATO from 1992 to 2001 it was almost a no brainer we were going to be involved there in time anyway. It was only a matter of time.

Posted by hometown (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AHHHH, the Communist news network.
Democracy is at work there, this was a parlimentry decision where elected officials decided that they may be able to have us out by 2011 provided they can handle their own security issues. That's way better then getting your doors kicked in and then being executed for speaking against the tyrant Saddam. No one in Iraq had a voice until we came along so yeah it is working.

Posted by GrammarNazi (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi, anamerican... I'm still waiting for that "good" opinion piece. Glenn Beck is an idiot. Anyone with even the vaguest memory of a high school civics course can tell you that poor people aren't poor because they vote for Democrats. They vote for Democrats because they're poor -- because Democrats traditionally support government programs that offer help for poor people (welfare, etc.), whereas Republicans, with their focus on smaller government, traditionally support reductions in, or elimination of, such programs. Beck offered some statistics and ran the wrong direction with them. His flawed analysis leaves the stats virtually meaningless.

Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wish people would stop thinking that it's our duty as Americans to spread "freedom" throughout the world. First of all, not everyone is ready for a democracy or wants our help establishing it. Second of all, our first priority should be taking care of our own people through strong domestic policy. Thinking that we need to go around invading other countries in the name of freedom is foolish and arrogant.

Posted by Mel (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

5:46 PM Beck has a manner of carrying on but he is correct about most of what he talks about. Watch him a few times before writing him off.

Posted by anamerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ass27 writes "Either way, will our lives really be much different regardless of whether Obama or McCain is president?"
Without giving an economic course to you, look into Obama's stance on taxes, in particular how it affects investors. It will make a big difference to those whom already pay the highest tax rates.

Posted by Jerry (anonymous) on August 23, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is very scary to see so many intelligent people being "sucked into" what Barak Hussain Obama is telling them. It shows just how gullible people are. Tell them what they want to hear and they shall follow you.

Posted by richan (anonymous) on August 23, 2008 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

at last people Who can spell and write complete sentences are reading this Paper again. I don't agree with all of Anyone, but picking some from some I get less worried about the future of the US. I just recall listening to, and being in this same conversation in 1967. only then our Moron in chief was a Democrat. I'm not going to relive all that angst. just want to illustrate that invading sovereign nations over fabricated reasons is an across the aisle phenomenon. how little We learn from such expensive lessons. i'd like to talk with my Cousin about this all. but sadly he never returned from "defendings US outside of Saigon. but hey, he was 23. am I ready for Change?, I'll believe it when I see it. but You betcha.

Posted by GrammarNazi (anonymous) on August 23, 2008 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Tell them what they want to hear and they shall follow you."

As opposed to McCain, who's telling us what we DON'T want to hear?
Welcome to campaign season, Jerry. That's modus operandi for all candidates.

Posted by edrule3 (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Today, we commemorate St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. A day in which the great Christians of this world acted out their leader's orders and the murder of 70,000 Protestants (Huguenots), by Catholics, ensued (1572).

Oh, was that God whom led them to slaughter each other, or could there have been rich and powerful people at the top of the church's chain of command who controlled them instead? What lies did they tell their flock to turn them into sanctimonious murderers?

If you're too afraid to think these questions through then your minds are owned. You are not free, you are a coward, and you don't deserve to consider your place to be amongst the free and the brave in this homeland. You are servile to a government headquartered on foriegn shores and you don't even know what it is to be an American. You're just fooling yourselves. But oh, don't it feel good to just santimoniously pretend!

The same church and the centuries-old family names behind them are still leading followers, as a course of tradition since the Dark Ages, whom are overwhelmingly (in America)Republicans. These people are still ignorant and willing to do anything their leaders tell them to for fear of going to hell if they don't obey. It just makes them feel better when they're told God's on their side. And it feels so much better to just feel good about themselves rather than to face the ugly fact of their tradition of accepting anything that comes from their church.

Highly paid personalities work hard every day to control the minds of these people via the air waves. It's the simplest psychology and it works on the simplest minds. Ms. DeBlieck is testament to these truths and, sadly, this country is wrought with multitudes of these people and they each can cancel the vote of a true American.

There are basically two types of people in this theopolitical realm: The fearful, lesser intelligent and those that take advantage of their ignorance. So, on which side of the coin is Ms. DeBlieck and the other fear mongerers propagandizing us? Are they merely fools whom believe the lies themselves, or beneficiaries aiming to capitalize from creating these deceptions? You have to ask yourselves these questions, if you possess the intelligence to do so, that is.

Posted by hometown (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AS27,

I can think justfine for myself.
First of all when we supported Iraq it was because we needed to pick the least worst of 2 evils. Also Iran had been genrously supported by the USSR and we did not want the communists to get a good foothold on the middle east. Also could you really fathom a middle east where Saddam controlled that much oil after invading Kuwait? I can assure you had we done nothing he would have set his sites on Saudi Arabia and would have smeared them. Then where the heck do you think we would be. Further had this happenned I can assure you also that there would have been a much, much worse war then the one playing out now and we would have then had no choice but to fight him at a much, much worse cost. So again it comes down to now or later.

Also what happened because of the sacntions is Saddam's fault, not ours. He chose to defy what the world was asking him to do and he made his people suffer for it. NOT US. He was given option after option, time after time.

I can agree that we should be fearful of the current adminstaration as they have pissed on alot of our (AMERICAN) civil liberties. I do not afford those same rights to militants and combabtants nailed on the battlefield. I believe that the people need to take Washington back, however, I do think we have a responsibility to stomp out injustice and oppression whenever we get the chance.I believe that as humans we should all be able to enjoy those rights and to keep it to ourselves is just plain greedy. I don't think it should cost what it has cost us though and I will agree with that. This was handled sooo poorly and yes I think there is so much corruption in government these days that I woulden't even know where to start with the indidments on both sides of the aile. finally while you and I may disagree I think we can both agree that many things are broke and it's up to us the people to fix it or lose it.

Posted by puddlejumper (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You guys are starting to attack each other! Stop naming names. Exspress your point of view, but don't rip someone else apart for not seeing things your way. We all have different ideas and that's ok.
By the way, to the Vets of any year or war, Thanks. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't thank my lucky stars for our brave soldiers.

Posted by edrule3 (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 11:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hometown, send your sons and daughters to fight wars on foriegn shores, for the good of your conscience. But don't you dare stand back and cheer, and wave your flag, when it's you with nothing to lose, while your neighbors' sons and daughters come back home - shattered and broken, or eternally silenced.

The Iraqis should have organized and had their civil war to oust Hussein. Instead, to Syria and Jordan, millions have fled to wait-out the bloodshed.

Yet, our guys die everyday, and it's people like you that make that possible. People like you - with nothing to lose.