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Arena plans raise more questions
Published 12:00 p.m., May 27, 2009
The Fergus Falls City Council spent much of a Tuesday work session weighing the benefits of new projects against the uncertainties of the city’s budget.
The uncertainty comes as Fergus Falls leaders await cuts by Gov. Tim Pawlenty to state aid payments to cities. The governor has said he will consider reducing those payments as part of an effort to close a $2.7 billion budget gap by July 1.
Tuesday’s meeting began with a focus on financing a new community ice arena, but evolved into a debate over what the city can afford — including the long-term costs of doing nothing.
In addition to the estimated $7 million arena, council members have identified a $3 million law enforcement center and a $5.5 million library expansion project as potential capital improvements through 2012.
Mayor Hal Leland said he believes the release of the governor’s revised budget will be crucial to further decision-making. Fergus Falls already stands to lose $857,000 in local government aid (LGA) over the next two years under Pawlenty’s original budget. City staff are budgeting with that number in mind, but are anticipating further cuts.
“We can’t do anything until we know what our unallotment is going to be and how hard we’re going to get hammered,” Leland said.
The mayor also asked the council to distinguish between expenses that are essential to the operation of the city and “special projects” like library expansion and a new arena.
But to Greg Stumbo, First Ward, so-called special projects are important in improving residents’ quality of life. Library programs are assets that are harder to measure than repairs to infrastructure, he said, but they’re still valuable.
Eric Shelstad, First Ward, acknowledged the inherent risk in any decision the council makes on the projects, whether the decision-making happens this year or in the next several years. There’s risk associated with undertaking a project, as well passing on it, Shelstad said.
“Whatever decision we make is going to be made with a lot of unknowns,” he said.
In regards to a new arena, one major question has been how much donors could contribute to the project. Speaking on behalf of the Fergus Falls Hockey Association and the Fergus Falls Figure Skating Club, Chuck MacFarlane told council members he believed it would be difficult for arena backers to raise more than $1.5 million for the $7 million project.
Now is a difficult time to organize a capital campaign, MacFarlane said, not only in light of the economy, but because residents have already contributed significant amounts of money to projects like the Lake Region Healthcare Cancer Care and Research Center and the Lakeland Hospice and Homecare Hospice House.
MacFarlane also reminded the council that in most communities, the city funds an arena as it would pools, parks and other amenities. Local governments own 77 percent of the 116 arenas in outstate Minnesota, he said.
According to projections by the city’s finance department, undertaking all three projects would raise the city’s general tax capacity rate from about 43 percent in 2008 to 81 percent in 2020.
Or in other words, the owner of a $100,000 home would face an increase in city taxes from $429 to $997 over 12 years. That’s factoring in $2 million in contributions from arena supporters and $3 million in library grants and fundraising.
Jim Fish, Second Ward, asked fellow council members to consider the impact on residents age 65 and over who are living on fixed incomes. The council must also anticipate operational costs once projects are completed, Fish said, citing Alexandria’s current struggle to keep its arena up and running.
Some council members questioned whether the cost of the arena could be reduced. According to City Engineer Dan Edwards, the city could always go back to arena architects with a request to downsize the project. But, he said, there’s an inevitable bottom line if the city wants to ensure a new arena is worth the effort.
The two-rink arena would replace the two southerly wings of the current high school, which will be vacant by next summer. The arena’s second floor would connect to meeting rooms, storage space and offices on the school’s main level.
A new law enforcement center, tentatively planned for Eisenhower Elementary, has already been reduced from $5 million to $3 million. That project would include the remodeling of only some of the school, said Chief of Public Safety Tim Brennan.
Council members made no decisions on any of the projects Tuesday, though a decision on the arena is needed by late summer if the city is to begin construction once students are out of the high school. Another work session is scheduled for June 4 at 7 a.m. in City Hall council chambers.
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The Daily Journal is happy to host community conversations about news and life in Fergus Falls and the surrounding area. As hosts, we expect guests will show respect for each other. That means we don't threaten or defame each other, and we keep conversations free of personal attacks. Those who persist with racist, defamatory or abusive postings risk losing the privilege to post. To post a comment you will need to register. Or, if you're already registered but have not included your true, verifiable identity with your registration, you will need to update your account to include your identity. Effective Dec. 1, 2009, all posts appear with the commenter's true identity, which must be verified by site staff. Those who registered prior to Dec. 1, 2009, should be aware that once you update your information with your true identity, all prior posts under your user name will also indicate your true identity. If you do not wish to link yourself to prior comments, you should register again with a different user name.Posted by rodentboy (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
doctipster pretty much sums it up.
Posted by NeedMoreInfo (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ditto
Posted by Bcannell (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In another forum the director of the convention and visitors bureau argues that the traveling hockey teams will fill our hotels and restaurants and buy all sorts of local goods and services....if that's true, why would a vibrant community like Alexandria have a hard time keeping their Ice arena open? If they can't do it, we sure can't.
Posted by Bcannell (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and another thing, I thought that ground was unsuitable for a highschool because it was built on a swamp, now it's good enough for an ice arena....i guess the swamp must have drained itself.
Posted by peanutbutter (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For once you have a council that wants to improve the community of Fergus Falls, and all you can do is bash them. Keep it a dying community, geese, police, and retirees. Kindergarten class is 115, pretty soon you'll have k-12 at the new school.
Posted by Mel (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 4:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
People are leaving high tax areas now to avoid this sort of confiscation of money. I'm glad I haven't moved to Fergus yet, maybe never will.
Ditto doctipster you sure nailed this one. Why would anyone want their taxes to more than double for something they may never use or need.
Posted by watermelon (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's an idea-let the MacFarlanes and ottertail power pay for it. This is similar to the sports stadium syndrome taking place in metro areas throughout the country. The sport or team is backed by wealthy individuals, but the bulk of funds end up coming off the back of the average taxpayer under the guise of it being a "public" project that will somehow benefit everyone.
I think the definition of what is "public" is getting blurred. Try police stations, city halls, road repairs, infrastructure etc etc.... Not a 7 million dollar playpen for all the wealthy hockey parents and their snot kids.
Posted by watermelon (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW-a library should be considered a public project, although they have become terribly outdated what with the widespread availability of information on the internet. The only reason people use the place is for the free internet access.
Posted by steve1955 (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Having an ice arena does not make Fergus more progressive or keep it from dying. Better jobs and higher wages will make Fergus Falls more progressive and stop the slow death now in progress. If an ice arena will fix the problems in Fergus, lets build ten of them. If you hockey players and ice skaters want an ice arena then pay for it yourself. I want a half mile oval for car racing. Do you skaters want to pay for that? I also want a separate drag strip for those people who don’t like oval racing. I suppose we should buy their hockey pucks and sticks to. I mean why should the little darlings pay for anything?
Posted by l8modl (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(Not a 7 million dollar playpen for all the wealthy hockey parents and their snot kids.)
Excuse me? Watermelon, are you smoking something? Most of the "snot kids" do not have wealthy parents. It costs money to play hockey, but does that mean we are wealthy? Not if you work in this great city of FF. They can't even keep a card shop in the mall. Hockey weekends may be the only thing that keeps this town open in the winter. If all you whiney people would shop in this town, business owners included, maybe there would be more businesses to bring in tax dollars. Oh wait. We didn't want a new liquor but they built it. Convention Center? It was built. Library? Same thing.
Posted by FergusFamily (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's just keep the taxes so low that we attract the bottom of the barrel to live here. Then the rest of us may just as well move to a community that gives a rip and doesn't have one foot in the grave.
Posted by steve1955 (anonymous) on May 27, 2009 at 11:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's the same type of arguments as last time, then it was that a better more expensive building would produce a better student and attract more people to move here. Now according to fergusfamily if we raise our taxes we will attract better people, as it is we just attract the lower classes because our taxes are so LOW. Now who could argue with that?
Posted by dutchsays (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 1:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's a simple numbers game. In this little town, where we have four wards from which city councilers are elected, and there might be several candidates running in each ward, each candidate has to cobble together the most small numbered groups with a special want, aka special interest groups, whether hockey parents, senior citizens, moms who want a water sports emporium to shovel off their kids to in summer,summer reading or park softball league programs. Has to please the most special interest groups with money to fund their pet projects, and equally important, MUST OFFEND THE FEWEST NUMBER OF FOLKS WITH OUTSTRETCHED HANDS .The loss of even one or two small but vocal groups can cost an election. Couple that with the regrettable fact of a city council populated by tax-o-maniac liberals like Stumbo and Leland, and the sky's the limit on spending and tax increases. Add in the history of governance which enlightens us that as far back as pre-Christian Imperial Rome, the emperors erected arenas, race fields, the Coliseum, where they staged violent games, with bloodshed galore, to give a restive populace a means of blowing off steam instead of moving violently against the governing class which really laid on the taxes. Our own political class, dems and republicans, recognize the value of keeping alive organized blood sports such as football, hockey, boxing, racing, where everyone can vicariously vent their frustrations with situations and circumstances which they otherwise feel powerless to resist, address, redress, change. Give the folks a means to safely sit in the stands and cheer on their favorite gladiators with a hockey stick, a goal line defense, a TKO in the seventh round, let them cathart in a controlled environment, and you minimize the possibility they will direct their rage at those who govern.Besides, you ARE giving families the opportunity to do things together in a small community with limited resources, and even the senior citizens have something to talk about round the coffee table. Just make sure that every special interest group gets something for nothing, so they defend the system of taking, extorting , money from all of us for their other giveaway schemes. Liberal politics at work. Promise everything to everyone. It starts right here in River City, and rolls all the way to Washington.
Posted by Sumwun (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
...A lot of lazy complaining going on. People with JUST enough energy to complain on their home computer, but if you watch the council meetings on PEG access, almost every seat in the council chambers is empty. If it's not important enough for you to get off your duff and voice your displeasure to the elected officials that use YOUR earned dollars at their discretion...SHUT UP and go back to watching Oprah and The Price is Right all day.
Posted by MINNAZ (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
$7 Million for an ice arena??? HELLO!!! This is MN, land of 10,000 lakes, one of which is in the middle of Fergus Falls! Hell freezes over every winter! Free ice!
Fergus Family, you better stir up the bottom of that barrel, the scum always come to the top! Someday, you'll also have one foot in the grave and you better have enough money put away for your medical expenses, nursing home, hospice,etc! I don't think your taxes are going to pay for that!
Posted by watermelon (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually, you _will_ find that there are more kids in the hockey program from wealthy area parents than not. It was that way when I was growing up, and it still hasn't changed.
It's obvious that the MacFarlane oligarchy is still fervently backing the local hockey program and the arena _will_ happen, one way or another. And in the end, normal residents who don't want anything to do with it will still have it tacked on to their tax bill or in the form of sales taxes. This is what is wrong with our government. There is no longer a line of distinction between what a true "public" project is and the pork. Just special interest segments who want what they want, but at the cost of everyone else.
Needless to say, a hockey arena should be at the bottom of the priorities for smaller city, especially in this economic climate. All that money on a limited use facility for a seasonal sport. Just think of what 7 million dollars would do for cancer research? But that's just wishful thinking....How much do you really need to play and watch hockey? Ice, some bleachers and a pole barn to cover it all up. Oh, wait...you already have that.
Posted by watermelon (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Or maybe they could get a bunch of banks and wealthy backers together and BUILD IT THEMSELVES with LOANS as in Fargo. Oh, wait...they would never be able to pay the loans back and default because operations of the new arena would exceed the costs and would end up in the red within a year. That's why they want taxpayers to foot the bill and it's already paid for.
Funny how that works.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/...
Posted by peanutbutter (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This really doesn't have anything to do with a hockey arena. It could be the swimming pool, or any other ammenity that would entice people to move to the town. The city of Fergus is happy just the way it is. You can guarantee that without a new arena the hockey program will be gone. There goes another 40-50 students out of each class (girls and boys) who will move to Moorhead, Alex, Wadena, Breck, anywhere they will have the support and opportunity to play the game. Now you're down to 65-75 students per graduating class. Pretty soon Underwood will have a bigger school, we all know they already have a better one. Maybe an increase in property tax isn't the solution, but instead of whining about everything try to think of a solution.
Posted by metasonics (Jamie Cooper) on May 28, 2009 at 9:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
even the nazis wern't this callous, they at least provided ghettos for jews before they sent them to the ovens.
what a sad state our nation finds itself currently in where you applaud an elected official for abusing his veto power like a king uses a seal.
all because in some warped way you think leaving the poor and disabled to starve and die without healthcare will somehow equal more money in your pocket.
I've got news for you, when people have no other options, they won't just lay down and die.
they might be willing to die taking out those who shoved them off the cliff though.
I suggest raiding the homes of republicans first once the violence starts.
Posted by metasonics (Jamie Cooper) on May 28, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
doctipster , quit crying about funding the library already, maybe you should go there and read a little if you are able to that is. I think the college may still offer free classes to persons who have been out of school for a long time. maybe you could go learn some reading comprehension skills?
instead of whining about the library, pressure your elected to reduce things like the thousands they spend each month on phone calls at our expense.
Posted by Buldogs (anonymous) on May 28, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First off Redcloud, families will choose to live where their children can participate in a variety of activities. If you don't understand that, you either don't have children or you don't support your children as well as you should. Lastly, what is creditability? Is that a new word? Try credibility.
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"[E]ven the nazis wern't this callous, they at least provided ghettos for jews before they sent them to the ovens."
*cough GODWIN'S LAW! cough*
Posted by peanutbutter (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Redcloud pretty much has his head in the clouds, or somewhere else. People will move out of the community if there isn't opportunities for their children, also I see you are chauvanist, in today's world it's not only daddy that gets the job.
Posted by ScottDeBrito (Scott DeBrito) on May 29, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
before we banish the 250+ youth that are involved in youth hockey, figure skating, and high school hockey to practicing and playing games on lake alice, maybe we should consider the economic impact having an indoor rink really has on the community. This winter there was some sort of hockey tournament in Fergus Falls almost every weekend. There are usually 8 teams in each tournament menaing 7 of them came from out of town with each team having approx 15 kids, that is 100 kids with parents coming to Fergus almost every weekend of the winter. Lets ask the hotel managers, restaurant owners/managers, convenience store owners/managers if they would like to see Fergus Falls without an indoor sheet of ice. What do you think thier answer would be? What would happen to some of the businesses in Fergus Falls if those 100 families quit coming here every weekend in the winter? Loss of an indoor rink would be a significant economic loss to the community, some businesses that barley get by in the slow winter months might not make it, lodging tax revenue from the loss of hotel room stays would be greatly affected.
There are basically three options.
1. Build the new rink
2. Continue to fix and repair the existing rink
3. Do nothing and eliminate indoor ice in Fergus Falls.
If building the new rink is equally or less coslty in the long run than constantly repairing the existing rink then that is probably what should be done. Doing nothing and giving people one less reason to come to Fergus Falls and spend money is the mostly costly option available in my opinion.
Posted by Bcannell (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Redcloud has his head in exactly the right place, and makes some very good points and I notice he did not have to resort to name calling in order to make his points. Unlike peanutbutter.
Posted by tippy98c (Aaron Schultz) on May 29, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
7 million? Thats it? Whats that gonna build?
I'd be more on board if it were around 10-15 million.
Posted by ScottDeBrito (Scott DeBrito) on May 29, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I believe the hockey association, figure skaters, and the school currently pay around $40,000/month to rent the current rink(s) from he City of Fergus Falls from October - March.
Posted by andtongs (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 6:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The powers that be in this town know how to get a new building....just don't maintain the current building then when it falls apart or looks like it is falling apart, tell the citizens that it is too expensive to fix and a new building would be cheaper in the long run. It is easy to do because they also find a constituentcy that will benefit from the new building and when all else fails tell the people "it's for the children". A lot of young people, new parents, complain about Fergus being a retirement community but it seems to me that it is us retires that are footing the bill for everything.
Posted by steve1955 (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The people in Europe and Great Britain must be smarter than we are because they can get 300 to 400 years of use from their buildings, but then they maintain their buildings, sort of like the people who run Hillcrest Academy.
Posted by clarson (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The first thing I believe people look for in a town to possibly move to, are job opportunities. I don't know of anyone who has moved somewhere just because thier kid can play a sport for 4 years or less out of a lifetime. This town amounts to a few younger parents who want everything new, much like they do in their own personal lives. Nothing is good enough. New cars, new houses, everything new.
Posted by clarson (anonymous) on May 29, 2009 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As damn dumb as the police farce is in this town they sure as hell don't need another station.
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