Posted by ffresident (anonymous) on September 5, 2007 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You don't need Life Church. They are an awful example of what a Christian SHOULD be. I feel sad for the people who continue to go to church there. They are being deceived.

Posted by raisedinMN (anonymous) on September 5, 2007 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For anyone feeling on the defensive of Life church, you may want to read carefully through this:

http://christsmandate.blogspot.com/2006/...

scroll down, beyond the grey box.

John, I am SO sorry to hear that. If only Life church would see beyond their own environment they have created, that there are people who NEED Jesus. Free coffee and doughnuts, and sponsoring a rodeo do NOT warm peoples' hearts with the love of Christ. And turning them away is the direct opposite of what Jesus would do. There may be 2 sides to a lot of stories, but in the kingdom of God, there is the side of love, or of hate - which translates to pride and selfishness. Is turning someone away "loving your neighbor as yourself"? You may say "well, i am not like THAT"...in God's eyes, it doesn't matter. That is pretty black and white.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 5, 2007 at 7:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RaisedinMN is right.

Life Church is spiritually abusive...

Spiritually abusive churches control people by rules. But it's the
hidden rules that are most powerful, injurious, and unhealthy. For
example, Don't say anything contrary to the pastor's teaching or the
church leadership. When this situation arises the person speaking up
is marked as rebellious. If we speak against any of the projects the
pastor wants were automatically outcast, cut off from the congregation
and accused of having a devil or being a person that doesn't hear from
God and doesn't understand the Word.

By not speaking those hidden rules, they are kept from being exposed
for what they are: a control mechanism that manipulates people. The
Bible calls manipulation witchcraft.

Posted by Tysmom (anonymous) on September 6, 2007 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Did they give a reason why?

Posted by whostruth (anonymous) on September 6, 2007 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe all churches have "Rules"or so called Doctrines and I have heard of alot worse, uasully from the congregation members,I would not embarress them like this nor put stummbling blocks in front of those who may NEED it, I do not go To "LIFE" ,however I know how much it has done for so many people, as all churchs have and it is our own struggle to find our own personnel fit. Or perhaps the road God wants us on. Had this not happened to you, Let me ask you this, would you have been there that day to share the good news of Jesus to your friend. I too like you am amased on my journey, it is not the one I choose, I had to give up my resentments to others "churchs and people I look up to" so I could be at peace with Gods Will for me Today.

Posted by freda (anonymous) on September 6, 2007 at 10:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder why a "response to a letter" was given to the public in a letter to the editor and not mailed to Life Church. There was no letter here for the public to read to judge Strauch's response. How can anyone accept there is any truth in a "response" given to something they know nothing about? The Daily Journal should be more responsible in there letter publishing. It doesn't really surprise me though. That's why I will never give them another penny for a paper.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

An email I received:

Dear Ephesians,

I am sorry you feel that way about Life Church but you could not be more wrong about your statement of them being - how did you say it - spiritually abusive. I have been apart of Life Church for over 20 years and your statement is not a correct one - on less of course your mean that when the leadership of the church does not agree with you - then they are spiritual abusive. I feel sorry for you and now you have attacked apart of the Body of Christ in the public's eye - and that is very wrong. I dare you to bring one example as to their so called spiritual abusiveness attention and I will show you how you are most likely self-centered and upset that they did not listen to you about something.

Please understand that I have nothing personally against you â?" whoever you are â?" but I simply hope to bring some light to your understanding.

May the Lord open your eyes to His great love!

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just want to say - go Life Church. Free donuts and coffee and sponsoring a rodeo (sounds like I missed a lot of fun) and that is what churches should be doing – that is getting into the community rather than sitting in their pews and shutting their doors – to others who look different. From where I sit – it looks like Life church is engaged with engaging people – right where they are at and if that means free donuts and coffee – or a rodeo – or a pig roast or a fun festival – like what the Nazarene Church did this summer (go NAZ)- all I can say is Yeeeeeehaaaaaaw!. Why would anyone say this is not the “right” example of Christianity? Go figure! As for abusive leadership – I have personally seen Life Church’s leadership in action and under many different situations – and I continue to be totally amazed – it is a picture of what great leadership is all about.

Praise God for Life Chruch and all Churchs in whom the name of Jesus Christ and His Word is preached.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm. That comment sounds spiritually abusive to me. Based on that comment alone, I would never enter the doors of Life Church.

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Ephesians,

Shame on you for miss quoting the last sentence as if I was calling you a bad name! Shame on you! Your quote of that last sentence is a lie. I wrote, "Please understand that I have nothing personally against you, whoever you are, but I simply hope to bring some light to your understanding".
Please stop, you are spreading of strife.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just copied and pasted. That's all I did.

Posted by freda (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ehespians- What things about reaching out into the community with the Love of Christ, and free fun things to do are spiritually abusive? If you belong to a church you love, stay there and reach out to the people who need the love of Christ - don't be critical of others who do. Zepher may be right about people who think a church is spiritually abusive. Those who feel that way are usually those who have their own personal agenda and think the Pastor is beholding to them, that they have a "special gifting" to know what God is wanting a church to do. God set up the idea of authority and leadership. If you went to Life Church (or Community Bible Church) and thought it was abusive and you left. Good for you (likely good for the congregation of Life Church as well). Hopefully you know how to forgive and go on with God if that is the case. Bitterness and resentment will only hinder the plan God has for your life.

Posted by freda (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Also Ehesians, I am not saying that those who feel a church is abusive or think they hear from God do not hear from God. They likely do not have the proper understanding that we are mere humans and make mistakes sometimes with what we hear. Pastors also make mistakes, and hear wrong. But proper authority is that the Pastor and the elders make the final decision. They hear from their members, pray, and do what they feel they God is speaking to the church as a whole. The Pastor and elders bear the weight of it before God. How many families do what a child says even though the parents think it is not right? If they let the child rule the roost there are problems. Yet a healthy family listens to the desires of the child and incorporates their desires as they feel they are appropriate. Anyway, that is kind of a picture of how a church family works too.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I never said reaching out into the community is spiritually abusive freda.

Posted by Ephesians (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 6:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

freda,

I 100% agree with your last comment.

Posted by johnnyb (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I should like to say what I felt was wrong was the fact that they notified the police, and I was informed I would be charged with trespassing I came on their grounds. Also I was told not to talk to members, thats hard to do being I have family members who still go there/// john strauch

Posted by freda (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

johnnyb,

Do you think that they could have ment about the reason they sent you the letter and do you think you should have even writen anything in the paper?

Posted by johnnyb (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WHAT??? :/ i don't understand what u just wrote. it sounds like u r missing a few words in your comment or something. they told me if i came on the property i would be charged with trespassing. i went to the cops and verified what they said. thats when i felt that that was gods house and that wasn't something they have the authority to do. the building is suppose to be Gods place of worship for anyone who wants to worship him. if i wrote a letter to the elders they would just throw it away so what good would that do me?.

Posted by freda (anonymous) on September 7, 2007 at 10:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry, for the typos in that last post. There is obviously a reason why they wrote you the letter, and a reason the police were notified. You must have done something to cause them to feel the need to take action. Those are not the first steps taken by a church, but a last resort to protect people from harm or physical danger. The church must have had a reason you were asked not to go there, and you are not wanting to reveal that. I am sure they wouldn't reveal it because of your privacy, they dealt with you directly, yet you wrote a letter in the paper without the whole story. That is unfair, because I don't think a church would respond publicly or betray your privacy. By writing the letter, you are attacking them and causing strife in the Body. If you would do that, it shows they were probably right in what they did.

Posted by journalreader (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WOW.

Well... I know our church invites prisoneers. So... I guess if you get arrested for trespassing, you could always come to our church. :)

Posted by ffresident (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

John,

I am wondering if life church followed the Biblical procedure when asking you to leave?

Matthew 18:15-20 gives the procedure and authority for a church to do this. It instructs us that one individual (usually the offended party) is to go to the offending individual. If he/she does not repent, then two or three go to confirm the situation and the refusal to repent. If there is still no repentance, it is taken before the church. This process is never "desirable," just as a parent never delights in having to discipline his/her children. Often, though, it is necessary. The purpose is not to be mean spirited or to display a "holier than thou" attitude. Rather, it is to be done in love toward the individual, in obedience and honor to God, and in godly fear for the sake of others in the church.

Did they come to you and talk with you, did you refuse to repent for something? Did they bring you before the ENTIRE church? Where you again refused to repent of something?

I am willing to guess that did not happen. If that didn't happen, I have to agree that they are being "spiritually abusive" or "spiritual bullies"

I have seen the abusiveness from life church demonstrated in different ways,and I am not at all surprised by what they did to you.

I pray you find a loving church home, where people will accept you. A place where you can heal.

Posted by johnnyb (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I left the Community Bible church 3 years ago when I found out they were going to build a new church. The Holy Spirit after much prayer put on my heart that that was not the direction he wanted the church to go at that time. I told the paster and elders this and basicly was told they felt differntly. I believed then and I still strongly believe if we want to fill our churchs {by the way there was lots of room in the old building, 2 services was suggested,} Then give to the poor, widows, and orpans, I feel we could spend{GODs} money the way it tells us to in the BIBLE. Last summer I again felt the HOLY SPIRIT wanting us to bring unity amongs believers, I many times tried to meet with the paster and disscuse this, he said he had nothing to say to me and write him a letter if i wanted to say anything. I contacted many churches in town and had mixed responses. I guess I made Life church a little upset at me and the responded by notifing the police and now you know the rest of the story. It was all about JOHN- 17:23////////////

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ffresident and all reading,

I appreciate your bringing some biblical points into this discussion. I would like to make a point about your definition of the word “church”. You take the word “church” to mean the whole body – the total congregation – the “entire Church”. A study of the word “church” (gr. ekklēsia) shows that this word is a very broad form of the word "church" and could mean – small group or gathering – a larger group or gathering – the body of Christ throughout the world – the body of believers in heaven already.

When you go through the Christian commentaries on Matthew 18:17 – they show that the word “church” could mean; the whole congregation or even just the leadership of the body as the representatives of that body.

Here are just a few,

Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
Mat 18:17 - Tell it to the church - See the notes at Mat 16:18. The church may here mean the whole assembly of believers, or it may mean those who are authorized to try such cases - the representatives of the church, or these who act for the church. In the Jewish synagogue there was a bench of elders before whom trials of this kind were brought. It was to be brought to the church in order that he might be admonished, entreated, and, if possible, reformed. This was, and is always to be, the first business in disciplining an offending brother.

Adam Clark’s Commentary on the Bible
Mat 18:17 - 3. Tell it unto the Church - Lay the whole matter before the congregation of Christian believers, in that place of which he is a member, or before the minister and elders, as the representatives of the Church or assembly.

Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible Mat 18:17
3. “If he shall neglect to hear them, and will not refer the matter to their arbitration, then tell it to the church, to the ministers, elders, or other officers, or the most considerable persons in the congregation you belong to, make them the referees to accommodate the matter, and do not presently appeal to the magistrate, or fetch a writ for him.”

So it looks like each church body has the freedom to decide which direction they wish to take on this subject and if you think about it – it seems to me to be better for all involved that the leadership deal with this and not the whole body. Have you even seen a situation where someone was brought before the whole church “like a court” and rebuked? Today that individual would probably take the church to court for the embarrassment of the whole thing. Keep in mind that in this letter to the editor, the matter in question that caused the action to be taken is not discussed. None of us are in any place to know who did what and if it was right. A letter like this just causes those who have past ill will (justified or not) to revisit it. That sounds like stirring up a stumbling block for your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well enough said….

Posted by ffresident (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

so,in other words... your just going to mindlessly go along with whatever leadership has to say?

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He won't mindlessly follow, but if he is a mature believer in Christ, he will submit to the leadership in honor and respect, not because some man says he has to but because the Word of God mandates it… (Johnnyb – I hope this helps…)

Hebrews 13:17 (NKJV) Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

1 Timothy 5:17 (NKJV) Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 (NKJV) 12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

Hebrews 13:7 (NKJV) Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.

Romans 13:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

Titus 3:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

2 Peter 2:9-10 (NKJV) 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed…

Posted by ginger_ale (anonymous) on September 8, 2007 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why would you want to go to that church anyway? Isn't the fact that the leadership kicked you out a good reason to seek another community, perhaps one that is more accepting?

While most of the members and elders are WONDERFUL people, the leadership of the church is corrupt. It's time for somebody in that church to take responsibility and replace those who are calling the shots.

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 2:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear ginger_ale,

Unbelievable!

First, I not sure what body of Believers would want anyone to come into their church and declare to the leadership of that church; that through pray, God has spoken to him and that they must listen to him because he had heard from God. Yeah right! Dream on! This sounds like exactly what jonnyb has done.

Second, about the “corrupt leaders” remark you made about the leaders of Life Church. I believe that those words are slander and about that the Word of God has some things to say.

Proverbs 10:18 (NKJV) Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, And whoever spreads slander is a fool.

Pro 11:12 (Message Bible) Mean-spirited slander is heartless; quiet discretion accompanies good sense.

Pro 24:28 (Message Bible) Don't talk about your neighbors behind their backs-- no slander or gossip, please.

2Pe 2:11 (Messes Bible)Even angels, their superiors in every way, wouldn't think of throwing their weight around like that, trying to slander others before God.

I pray that you will take these verses to heart and ask the Lord Jesus to forgive you for you slanderous remark and that you would correct your statement as being a false one. Just because you have some feeling that they are corrupt does not make it so and you should keep those thoughts to yourself and not spread them on a public forum.

Posted by ffresident (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

zepher,

your attitude. it stinks.

THAT is the attitude of life church... the "holier than thou" "we don't need you" "were perfect"

Grow up. Start looking at your "perfect" church through the eyes of the community.

Based on what I have heard here in this forum, I would conclude that if you DARE to disagree with the leadership of life - you will not be welcome.

Are you saying that God can't speak to (gasp) the congregation... so how dare a member go to leadership with what God told them??????

(Ps. I know TONS of people who felt the same way as John about life building a new church)

Oh, but they weren't the pastor. So they must not get to pray and hear from God. I see.

Can we say CULT????

Do you even see what this looks like to REAL people?

zepher... You are mean and mean spirited. You don't want real people in your church, you don't want people with opinions, people who pray, and care....

You want robots. Robots who look perfect, talk perfect, act perfect.... and by golly DON'T SPEAK UP!

And also....

I spent years in Bible school... I could quote Bible verses at you till I'm blue. Trust me, for every verse you use to back up what you say I have one too.

My point? Anyone can take a scripture and use it to say what they want.

Posted by johnnyb (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Has anyone asked themselves why Life church thinks they should advertise for GOd? At $1000 a month couldnt that money be spent to help the poor? there is a young widow who just lost her husband and will have to some how raise 3 wonderfull children, wouldnt that be wonderfull and showing the LOVE of christ to give them that money/// I think it would be much better spent to show the LOVE of JESUS to our town//////////

Posted by chipmunk (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You people are hilarious, all of you arguing with each about something that does not even exist except in your own minds. If I had know church was this funny maybe I will start going, I need a good laugh sometimes. Who know what could happen?……Wait a minute, Jesusclause just spoke to me…he said you are all crazy. Instead of arguing about which church to go to, why not go back to that garden with the talking snake.

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What was mean spirited about what I have said? I am not the one criticizing any church and saying that other churches are wrong if they don’t do things the way “I” they should – but you are. I have not brought slanderous statements about the leadership of any church – but others in the forum have and I am just defending Life Church. I have not jumped on anyone for free coffee and donuts - or billboard sign – nor have I called anyone a “cult”.

So what if a ton of people felt like John - that Life Church should have not built a new building. There also are a ton of people who are happy that they did. It is not what you feel or John feels or I feel; but what the Leaders of Life Church believe they were being directed by God to do.

So, does this mean everyone who does not see it your way is “mean spirited”? So anyone who defends against the actuations made in this “forum” –is being “mean spirited”? Go figure! I pray that God forgive you.

Not an ounce of my responses in this forum were meant to be “mean spirited” – not from my heart – but because my responses go against what you “feel” to be the truth – then I am mean spirited? {Also this electronic form of communication can easily filter passion for “mean spiritedness” – and for that I am sorry}

So if to any or all who have been reading this forum feels my posts have seemed mean spirited – please forgive me. It has not been my intent – it was not my heart – whatsoever; and if I have come across that way – I am truly sorry. I can see that this has been a bad witness for the Lord and that my defense was perceived as arguing and I ask the forgiveness of my Lord and Savoir and I ask for your forgiveness as well.

May the peace and truth of Jesus Christ be will you all!

Posted by zepher (anonymous) on September 9, 2007 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey chipmunk,

I am so sorry that you had to see this all. I am truly sorry if I in any way I demeaned the name of Jesus Christ or the purpose of His Church in your eyes – please forgive me. This is not what it is all about - not at all.

Posted by johnnyb (anonymous) on September 10, 2007 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was never given a restraining order, I was never even in court//// To minivanmom- I find it hard to beleive that we are so ready to judge people// In the bible there is a story about a mom who did not obey the Pharoh of Egypt, we have the story of MOSES..//because of it. The Life church decided they did not want to hear what I had to say according to the gifts of the Holy Spirit which they teach in this church. I guess you think that that is reason enough to say a beleiver is not allowed to ever step foot in their building/ The only reason this made it to the paper was the fact that the paster would not sit down over lunch and talk, Ifelt and still do that the response they gave was wrong//////// I pray for our leaders all the time and try to the best of my ability to obey athourity// {WE all fall short of following athority pefectly unless you never speed or any other of the many laws we have. I thought in this country we could still speak out when we see a wrong done//////////////////////

Posted by ffresident (anonymous) on September 10, 2007 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No zepher... You are not criticizing other churches. You are attacking people here,for having an honest opinion. And,to me. That is worse.

Posted by wendies43 (anonymous) on September 10, 2007 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well I think that John should go talk to a counselor and keep all this private. All this fighting back and forth is a bunch of non sense. What about the daily journal, can you get an article out- interview the Life Church and John or else this will never stop! That's my opinion on all this.

Posted by fergusnative23 (anonymous) on September 10, 2007 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

why would life church respond in a public forum to this? it seems like johnnyb's motive is to get a response. sounds like a childish bully trying to get his way, and he can't stand that he was not treated as God's authority in that church. pastor and elders are the authority of the churches they serve. if you don't like what they do, pray for them or move on and shut up. if you feel you have to keep gossiping about it and trying to get sympathy, you prove you were in the wrong and your heart is set on yourself not really God's will.

Posted by marilao1899 (anonymous) on September 12, 2007 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My experience with Life Church is that it can be a little abusive but doesn’t intend to be. They made my son sit for 4 hours (he may have exaggerated this a little) at a retreat led by Clint Rogers. Now he doesn’t want anything to do with them. He feels he was abused. They play this game where everyone has to make a decision for Christ and then they get to end the service and break for other activities. But, it sometimes backfires on them. Now we have a young man who doesn’t want to go to church. I think far too many evangelical churches pull this stunt on their kids.

This church likes to believe that they are like a new testament church similar to the church in the first century. But, that church came out of the Jewish Synagogue and was never a one man show. The synagogue had a ruler who was like an organizer (or MC) who invited various local men and itinerant preachers to speak. This is how Jesus and Paul got to speak in lots of Synagogues. James, the brother of Jesus, seems to have been the ruler of the church in Jerusalem but Peter and others seem to have done most of the preaching. But, it can also be said, that it is the way it is in America because parishioners like it that way. There are lots of churches that operate the same way Life Church does. Revelation, in the message to the churches accuses the first church of losing its first love. It doesn’t say what the new first love is but it seems to be “How great we are”. Nothing out of order is tolerated. Pentecostalism has grown to be a worldwide movement as large as Protestantism by converting people and shortly thereafter, putting them out on the streets preaching even though their theology isn’t the best. This community could use a service on Saturday or Sunday night for all the people that have to work on Sunday morning.

But, this leadership seems to rule like a king or Roman Caesar. In Samuel, the people ask for a king and God relents and gives them one even though he doesn’t think it is a good idea. I think one reason God doesn’t like the idea is that now the people will think the King of the Universe is like the kings of the earth and he is not. He is a kind, gentle loving heavenly father. In Job, we see that even his adversary Satan can come into his councils and God tries to reason with him. So, my advice to the critics is – don’t assume that God is like that and turn away from him.

Remember that Jesus’ message wasn’t welcome in his church either and they nailed him to a cross outside the city gate. “Therefore, Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside the gate”. The messengers of God have suffered throughout history. Or in secular terms “they shoot the messenger”.

Posted by ginger_ale (anonymous) on September 12, 2007 at 8 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it is important for all of the community to discuss the role of Life Church. Say what you want, most of us believe that the church has some serious faults.

Growing up, there were always offers to attend Community Bible events, yet all of the young people who attended the church isolated themselves from the rest of their peers. Is this what Jesus wanted from them? That same isolation was placed on a lot of students who went to Master's Commission. The restrictions placed on those students can only be described as cultish.

There was also always a constant turnover of the people who were most active in the church. I recall a number of families who left disillusioned with the politics of the church.

Why did it change it's name? I believe it is a result of their negative public image.

Zepher: Thanks for trying to put me in check. I admire your passion, yet I question whether or not you would believe any criticism that is mentioned about your church. Was it a sin my behalf, probably... Yet we all fall short of God's glory...No?

Just like slum lords fall short of God's glory. ;)

Posted by freedomchurch (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All of these comments above and the bashing of one church or another in this city, is the number one reason other religions are becoming so popular. We can disagree on tenants of faith and how the church is ran and still come together in unity for the sake of the gospel. All of this childshness just shows the unbeliever why they don't want to get involved in the Body of Christ. This is the very reason we have little impact on the community of Fergus Falls and why they needed to build a new detox facility and why they need to expand our jail. We are to seek and save that which is lost and stop trying to recruit believers from one fellowship to another. No church in this city is superior. We are all different in who we minister to and we need to stop bashing one another. If Life Church did nothing wrong, you don't need to defend it. Read Isaiah 54:17. If Johnny did nothing wrong, God will honor him too. It's time to grow up Fergus Falls Body of Christ!

Posted by carefulreader (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow...what crazy bantering going on in here. The most recent post had a very valid point, "If Life Church did nothing wrong, you don't need to defend it." It seems there is an issue here with pastors and authority, and sometimes it is wise to look outside of peoples' heated opinions. You may want to investigate another interesting viewpoint,

http://www.raystedman.org/misc/pastoraut...

If you feel, as a church member, that you have been trained to "mindlessly go along with whatever leadership has to say", that is an unhealthy relationship, and you should seek a more healthy one! If you are hopelessly in love with the church which you attend, that is great, but it seems very un-Christ-like to deny other people their opinions, especially when offered as an unbiased observer.

Alvin Toffler is quoted as saying, "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." How literate are you?

Posted by freedomchurch (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excelent article. And well stated Carefulreader.

How low we are willing to go in servanthood, is in direct proportion to how far we go for the Kingdom of God.