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KVLY, KXJB threaten to leave local TV
Station owners demanding money from Charter for broadcast rights
Published Friday, December 7, 2007
Fergus Falls subscribers to cable television provider Charter Communications could find themselves without many of their favorite TV programs beginning next weekend.
Fargo television stations KVLY and KXJB began airing messages Wednesday night stating that their programming would no longer be broadcast on Charter’s Fergus Falls line-up as soon as Saturday, Dec. 15.
KVLY, the NBC affiliate, and KXJB, the CBS affiliate, have directed Charter to pull its broadcasts from the Fergus Falls cable line-up.
That would leave Fergus Falls residents with no NBC programming over its dominant television provider. Park Region Telephone/Otter Tail Telcom, DISH Network, and DirectTV customers would not be affected by the move.
Because of Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules, Charter Communications cannot replace KVLY-NBC on the local line-up because the station has exclusive broadcast rights in the market. CBS programming would not be lost in Fergus Falls because WCCO out of Minneapolis is broadcast in Fergus Falls.
At issue is the desire of the station’s Texas-based operator to be paid money for the broadcast of the KVLY and KXJB signals.
Dallas-based Hoak Media Corp. is asking Charter for 1.67 cents per subscriber per day for the broadcast of each station — or about $1 per month, said Charley Johnson, general manager of the two Fargo stations.
Johnson says the fee request is justifiable, while Charter officials say it’s nothing short of a TV tax.
“For a long time cable has not been willing to pay for what they consider are the ‘free’ over-the-air stations. We’re asking them to pay because 90 of the top 100 programs are on our over-the-air channels and they pay for all the other channels on their line-up,” Johnson told The Journal from Fargo.
“We think it’s a reasonable request — especially when based on the viewership” Johnson said.
Charter Communications disagrees.
The company sees Hoak’s request as the “collapse” of the over-the-air model of broadcast television, said Tucker Carlson, Charter’s government representative in Minnesota.
Carlson, speaking from his Twin Cities office, explained that over-the-air television stations broadcast for free under a license from the FCC on airwaves owned by the American people.
“They’ve been given a free government spectrum and they all of a sudden decide they have the ability to charge for it,” Carlson said.
Carlson said if that happens cable rates will rise — and continue to rise.
“If they were to get away with this it wouldn’t be long before WDAY (the ABC affiliate in Fargo) would do it too,” Carlson predicted.
Carlson said Hoek appears to be forgetting the fact that Charter has spent a lot of money to put the KVLY and KXJB signals on its systems.
“Charter is providing them with a service for free and spending a lot of money getting their programming to Fergus Falls,” Carlson said.
He notes that in the past few years alone, Charter has invested heavily by laying fiber optic lines to carry the Fargo station’s signals to the city.
Carlson says Hoek sees the Fegus Falls showdown over the broadcast rights as an easy fight for the broadcast company.
“With Charter, there’s a big pot of money they’re looking at,” he said, even at 1.67 cents per customer per day.
“However creatatively Charley (Johnson) does the math, the bottom line is that right now I am paying nothing,” Charter’s Carlson said.
Comments
The Daily Journal is happy to host community conversations about news and life in Fergus Falls and the surrounding area. As hosts, we expect guests will show respect for each other. That means we don't threaten or defame each other, and we keep conversations free of personal attacks. Witty is great. Abusive is not. If you think a post violates these standards, don't escalate the situation. Instead, flag the comment to alert us. We'll take action if necessary. It's not hard. This should be a place where people want to read and contribute -- a place for spirited exchanges of opinion. So those who persist with racist, defamatory or abusive postings risk losing the privilege to post at all.Posted by timetotalk (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It looks to me, like Park Region and Dish and Direct TV, best be prepared for the flood of phone calls coming from their new subscribers.
I, personally, know of 4 customers who have switched their cable service and phone service and internet service in the last week alone over to Charter's competition.
I would like to understand how Charter won't pay the extra cents needed to keep their customers happy, when a couple of weeks ago, I received a notice in the mail that they were increasing my monthly rate. This notice was received after they changed the programming channels around, taking off some of our channels and denying me access to a couple of the channels that I am paying for on the extended basic package.
I am quite sure that I am not the only person who is a little upset by this.
I called the 800 number given. It is all automated so I talked to a person in billing. She was not even informed of this latest change in programming, but assured me that I would be getting a letter in the mail regarding this matter.
I do not want a letter, I want the programming that I have been paying for.
Posted by toad3 (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have Directv and it is freat!
Posted by toad3 (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have Directv and it is GREAT!
Posted by justme (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I opted to upgrade to Charter's digital service just recently and am less than satisfied. Along with digital service, I've experienced frequent signal interference. Only half the features on my dvr remote work. I was given no explanation other than "That's the way they are, those buttons have never worked, and the remote was manufactured before the dvr unit." Huh? I am paying for the new Charter On Demand channel, advertised as effective October 16, that has yet to be "ready to be released to the general public". Huh?
Charter's "customer service" rates among the lowest I've ever encountered. The local number is unlisted, so you must contact a representative over the toll free line who may or not speak understandable english. They are less than helpful, as most are uninformed and inconsiderate. Don't even attempt the online chat option on Charter's website, unless you've got the patience of a saint.
Charter's website is awful, with no clear explanation of what is included in each package, or list of prices to hook up plain old basic or extended basic cable, or rent a dvr or cable modem. Real informative.
Speaking of dvr, you have the option to rent a dvr for $15 (each) per month from Charter, or a Moxi unit, depending on what is available that day. The dvr holds 100 hours of recordings and the Moxi even less. If you've checked around, you'll find that both Dish Network and Direct TV offer thier dvr units for closer to $6 a month. The smallest amount of storage offered by both companies is 250 hours, and you have the option to choose a larger model.
As far as the channel issue goes, Charter has made some big mistakes. When the channel lineup was changed, they decided to take the popular Outdoor channel from the basic extended lineup and move it to a sports tier, which includes 10 sports channels having nothing to do with the outdoors. If you were not previously a digital cable subscriber, you must have a box or dvr installed and pay more just to get that channel back, or do as many have done and drop Charter's services altogether.
Besides this recent issue with KVLY and KXJB, Charter has also refused to deal with the NFL Big Ten Networks. They will not take on either one of these channels unless they can offer them as basic or extended basic channels and the owners of these networks have said no. In other words, it's a good idea to charge more for the Outdoor Channel, but not the NFL or Big Ten Network? I don't get it. Here we are in the Midwest with long cold winters and no choices. Hey - as long as the writers stay on strike, there will be no new shows on NBC or CBS to miss anyway, right? Or, maybe we could all get up on our icy roofs and put up our antennas and the sue Charter when we fall and break our necks.
The only consolation to me is that with Charter, you are not locked into a contract. You may drop their services at any time, and I suspect customers will soon be dropping like flies.
Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think Charter Communications is great. Course I'm not from your area anymore. Charter has good programing at competitive rates. The highspeed internet (10meg service anyone) beats the heck out of that snail mail internet (384kb) provided by either DSL or Dish TV. To help you with the math a 10meg service is 30 times faster than either of the others. Instantaneous Internet. The only problem I have with Charter is they still use some analog channels; but that'll change in about a year when digital will be the only thing available. Too bad about the petty bickering going on in your area. I think you all are being a bit hard on Charter.
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have to say that I’m a little troubled that the Daily Journal appears to be taking sides in this issue. The story’s headline certainly isn’t without bias (the words "threaten" and "demand" lead the reader to take sides), and there’s considerably more space given to Charter’s side of the conflict. As with any business dispute, both sides are probably partially responsible.
Tucker Carlson says, “They’ve been given a free government spectrum and they all of a sudden decide they have the ability to charge for it.” He conveniently doesn’t make any mention of the fact that in spite of never having paid over-the-air network stations for carrying their signals, Charter has been making money off of that “service” for years, to the tune of about a dollar a month per station per subscriber (the charge for the “basic cable” lineup – where these stations are situated – amounts to roughly that much per month). The stations haven’t gotten one penny of that money. He talks about them being free, but those stations are only free if we get them off an antenna.
He whines about the investment Charter has made in delivering those channels to us, as though they did so because they were doing the stations some kind of favor. Come ON. Those investments weren’t made with the stations in mind; they were made because it was in Charter’s best fiscal interest to do so. Period.
It seems to me that once you take that free signal out of the airwaves, include it in a cable lineup, and try to make a profit from it, all bets are off. Why shouldn’t the stations ask for a piece of that pie?
On the other side, Charley Johnson isn’t completely forthright either. It's not like they get nothing out of being on Charter's lineup. You can bet that when KVLY and KXJB go to prospective advertisers and show them how many people in the area watch channels 11 and 4, they’re sure to include the hundreds of FF Charter subscribers in their numbers. They can charge more for local commercials because so many FF viewers see those stations on Charter.
It’s a bit of a symbiotic relationship. Bottom line is, both of these huge media corporations are trying to make as much money as possible. The Daily Journal needs to do a better job of giving both sides of the story.
Posted by justme (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Forgot to add that I have never had a problem with their internet service, which is the only reason I continue to subscribe at all. Then again, this article pertains to cable tv options, not internet.
Posted by timetotalk (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ANonnyMoose, you bring up the issue of advertising. That is a very good point.
What about the local Fergus Falls and surrounding cities that are locked into contracts with KVLY and KXJB to air their advertisements?
I hope that they will be able to be released from their contracts, or that Charter will reimburse them for their lost advertising money.
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Timetotalk, I don't think Charter would be responsible for reimbursing those advertisers. KVLY and KXJB are the ones who make money off the ads that run on their stations, not Charter. If Channel 4 and 11 advertisers are upset that they're not reaching the FF market anymore, they'd have to take it up with 4 and 11, not Charter. You're right, though; that's a chance those stations are taking by yanking their signals out of the FF market. Will they anger their advertisers? We shall see.
Posted by Josephine (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
this whole thing really stinks--to not have one of the three major networks--it's stupid
Posted by PreciousKittyKat (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Justme said, "Charter's "customer service" rates among the lowest I've ever encountered. The local number is unlisted, so you must contact a representative over the toll free line who may or not speak understandable english. They are less than helpful, as most are uninformed and inconsiderate. Don't even attempt the online chat option on Charter's website, unless you've got the patience of a saint". I couldn't agree more. I do have the local Charter number...it is #1-218-736-3304. Perhaps that will help you. It was like pulling teeth to get ahold of that number. Hope you will find it useful. The 800number and customer service is a complete joke. I, myself, prefer to talk to real people, who have a clue!
Posted by woundedduck (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If we as community members want an ally, we better start contacting the businesses who advertise on those stations. Start local. Minnesota Motors advertises on those networks. Then call a Fargo business like Hornbacher's. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to call KVLY and ask why they've chosen to alienate thousands of consumers during the Holiday Season. Both of these businesses have "Contact Us" links on their websites. Let them know what you think.
Poke the bee hive baby.
Viva la Revolucion!
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Woundedduck -- Besides cracking me up (thanks!) you make a great point. Money talks. Phone calls to advertisers might speak volumes if those advertisers are prompted to pass our complaints on to their media representatives.
I should add that some advertisers in the area, Minnesota Motors being one of them, also buy commercial ad space on Charter's system. Those commercials appear on some of the other "traditional cable" channels like CNN or ESPN, and the money for those ads goes into Charter's pocket. The kind of consumer/advertiser pressure you're talking about could be put on both sides of this dispute.
Posted by timetotalk (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not understand how Charter is the only company denying the programming. Why is this not an issue with the competitors?
What I meant on the advertising issue, was that Fergus Falls Charter customers would not be able to see the advertisements that have already been entered into contract between the advertiser (MN Motor, etc) and KVLY. The advertisers have an expectation when they enter into the contract, and by no fault of the station, they are not able to fulfill that contract.
I am just frustrated with all the changes.. and the fact that I rely on Mick Kjar to tell me the weather and news every morning while I drink my coffee, and now I will not have that option.
I really hope that Charter will see the light on this. They have increased our rates for giving us less programming, they can do this if they want their customers satisfied and to stick with them.
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Timetotalk -- My guess is that if the other providers had more of the FF cable market, you might hear KVLY/KXJB trying to get money out of them, too. You can bet Park Region is paying close attention to what develops.
I do know that the satellite providers pay a fee to carry the major networks, but I don't know if any of that money goes to the local stations.
Regarding the advertisers on 4 and 11 -- it IS the fault of the stations that the ads aren't going to be seen in FF. It's KXJB and KVLY that are yanking the programming, not Charter. Now, they might argue that they have no choice since Charter won't meet their demands, but the decision is ultimately theirs. If they don't want their stations appearing on Charter, they can have them pulled, and that's what they appear to be willing to do.
I'm hoping some common ground can be found. Both sides have much to gain and lose and both sides could give a little.
Posted by Josephine (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with keeping it local. For this discussion Fargo TV is local to us. Sure alot of people go to the cities and so we get some news and programming on channel 7 (wcco) and channel 5 (ksax). But have 2 cbs and 2 abc stations makes absolutely no sense when there isn't an nbc station for the area (kvly). Someone needs a lump of coal for Christmas.
Posted by bucksteel (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 4:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Charter may be able to add the NBC affiliate out of Mpls (KARE 11) if this plays out as it stands now. I know they are on the Elbow Lake cable system (as is KVLY).
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The reason we get WCCO and KSTP out of the Cities is because they have "satellite" stations in Alexandria called KCCO and KSAX respectively. Those Alex stations simply "piggyback" the programming from their big sister stations in the Cities, with some local segments during the evening news produced by crews in Alex. FF is considered to be within both the Fargo and Alexandria TV Nielsen markets, so we're blessed with two CBS and two ABC stations on our cable system. If there were an NBC station in Alex we'd get that too. But there isn't. Fargo NBC is all we have, and KVLY is using that fact to their advantage.
Posted by fergusguy (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
timetotalk- charter is not denying the programing its Hoax media out of Texas, They are just trying to bully charter out of as much of its and the customers of charters money, charter won't have it if one station does it then they all will do it and guess what your BILL key word there is YOUR bill will keep going up to.
Posted by fergusguy (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sorry Hoek Not Hoax which to me seems like thats what kind of a company it is.
Posted by JohnM (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is just another example of one business trying to squeeze every available nickle out of another business and the consumer getting screwed in the process.
Charter is a joke as far as I am concerned(and yes I am a subscriber). I have NEVER had a decent experience with dealing with their customer service. When you move that type of industry off-shore it just gets worse. Timetotalk mentioned my biggest beef. My rates go up and the channel selection goes down unless I want to pay EVEN more then the increase that they gave me for the right to take less services. When you do talk to somebody within the cable company about the insanity of this process the reply is always "Sorry, can't change it. Would you like to sign up for more services?"
I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong but I can think of no other industry that works like this. I don't buy a car, drive it around for a week/month/year and then the dealer/bank comes up and says "Feel free to keep the car but I am adding $10 a month to your car payment. Oh and we are removing the braking service..unless you want to pay more"
The industry as a whole is out of control but thankfully our elected officals are stepping in and making a difference. THANK HEAVENS that they are making sure all channels will be digital. I like the fact that I can look forward to a letter in my mailbox in the next year from the cable company telling me about ANOTHER increase to pay for "the switch".
I think I will go read a book...
Posted by pureprairie (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WANTED,,send more money to hoax media in texas..That is a big state and they have big pockets to fill..george has many friends...YOU MUST HELP,,or you will be called un-american...(or iran will may go nukes)
Isn,t the capitolism wonderful...these ceo,s want you all to get signed up to send them 5 bucks a month,,,FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES... Come on ,,get with the game plan...fork it over,, stop wimpering...it is christmas,,,give ,,give ,,give,,,to those poor texans...ho ho ho.
I have shut my cable off all together so you will all have to pay more..
When will the madness end?
I loved it back in the sixtys...You got a phone bill and power bill each month and that was it...
enjoying a simpler life,,with out cables.
sincerely
silly
Posted by kingdanno (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok ... here's the deal ... Go to Park Region and sign up for the whole package ... phone, dsl, and digital cable. We want to "Keep it Local"? You call 998-2000, you get a person. You call the help desk, you get a person. You have a problem ... they come to your home ... even on weekends. I don't understand how these multinational conglomerates can come to Fergus Falls, tell us they have a good deal and then steal local business from a true and tested local company. KEEP IT LOCAL folks!
Posted by justme (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds great, kingdanno, if you happen to live where there are already dsl lines running. In that case, I would have plenty of other options to get high speed internet. Believe it or not, I am within city limits, but do not have this luxury. I could wait for years for that to happen or I could make use of the cable that is already hooked up to my house.
Posted by ANonnyMoose (anonymous) on December 10, 2007 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, here comes the first big test: The December 23rd Vikings game against Washington, originally scheduled for the afternoon on FOX, has been shifted in the NFL's "flex" plan to an evening game on NBC. That means no Vikings on TV in FF that weekend unless these yahoos get their conflict resolved before then.
Posted by tink (anonymous) on December 15, 2007 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Has anyone checked the rates with Park Region?? Holy Cow they are really high. $130 a month and I have to add the extra receivers at 5 something a month!!!
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