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Liquor laws can hurt reputations of youth
Published Tuesday, August 12, 2008
I would like to bring attention to the community of Fergus Falls regarding a very serious issue concerning our teenagers who have innocently sought a job in a local restaurant, and the danger they are facing.
There are, and rightfully so, laws governing the sale and service of alcohol. If an employee is found to have either sold and/or served alcohol to a minor person, that employee faces criminal charges. The charges are invoked to the employee, and possibly to the establishment, but not always.
There are occasions when the establishment is not even aware of the incident. Parents: this is my experience, it may or may not happen to your child, but knowledge is power for prevention. I can only
comment on the first hand knowledge of my experience, and as a parent, you need to make whatever necessary precautions with any establishment which serves liquor.
My 16-year-old daughter applied for a job at a local restaurant and was hired. She worked minimal hours (three to five hours) per week.
One evening, approximately six to eight weeks after being hired, she was caught in a “sting” operation conducted by the Fergus Falls Police Department.
Two young men entered the restaurant and asked to purchase mugs of beer. My daughter took their money, and then requested assistance from the manager for the serving of the beer. The manager, at the time, was busy and instructed another teenager to go and serve the drinks.
Hence, the police entered the building and charges were brought against my daughter for selling alcohol to a minor person. It was at that time, the manager of the restaurant thought that perhaps he should instruct his employee just what and how to card a patron. A little late perhaps? My daughter was fined with six months probation, community service and/or $$ fine.
It is my opinion that this restaurant put my daughter in danger by 1.) Not teaching her a vital part of her job, which, if violated will carry criminal charges, and 2.), Not informing her parents that they have no intention of teaching her a vital part of her job, which, if violated will carry criminal charges. I would have been glad to assist her with this very important information.
Parents: Just because the restaurant serves food, be aware that it is also may be a bar which serves liquor.
Managers, regardless of their long-time employment, become lazy and are capable of serious negligence, and it may affect your child's criminal record.
My last note: During sentencing, the judge miscalculated my daughter's age. He thought she was 17 years old rather than 16.
Mr. Judge said, “had you been carding my daughter, you would have been charged with a criminal offense.”
Karen Wolff - Fergus Falls
Comments
The Daily Journal is happy to host community conversations about news and life in Fergus Falls and the surrounding area. As hosts, we expect guests will show respect for each other. That means we don't threaten or defame each other, and we keep conversations free of personal attacks. Witty is great. Abusive is not. If you think a post violates these standards, don't escalate the situation. Instead, flag the comment to alert us. We'll take action if necessary. It's not hard. This should be a place where people want to read and contribute -- a place for spirited exchanges of opinion. So those who persist with racist, defamatory or abusive postings risk losing the privilege to post at all.Posted by timetotalk (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is the manager still employed?
Posted by Lee (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'd like to hear the other side of this story, mainly because it would be fair, and also because of the comments/generalization from Mrs. Wolff. I wouldn't say all managers become lazy, because I don't know all managers, but Mrs. Wolff must. I also know that it's not just managers who are capable of being lazy, it's also employees who should be doing their job correctly. I know that Ottertail County has some pretty stringent rules regarding training programs in establishments that serve liquor. As far as the parents being notified, if you let your child seek legal employment, then they are responsible for what happens on the job, it is not a day care and being a helicopter parent will only reduce the amount of jobs available to teenagers...believe me. As far as the comments from the judge, I'm confused, and what is written here doesn't seem to make sense.
Posted by positivelyperham (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
i like how it is everyone elses fault (even the judge) but her daughters. 16 year olds should not be serving drinks or beer period. if she wasnt sure or didnt know how to do it, she should have not served them. yes the manager is at fault also. but just because your daughter is 16 doesnt mean she should get a break when breaking the law. i say lock her up, teach her a lesson. oh and the reason she wasnt told the rules about carding is because it is against the law for 16 year olds to serve alcohol, period. and im sure she was told that at some time in her employment. hey mom, pay more attention to your daughters life, then you can teach her right and wrong and not just show her that everyone else is at fault. maybe she isnt mature enough to have a job like that.
Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on August 12, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I totally agree with the OP. When I was a bartender, I had to participate in mandatory TAM classes (Techniques of Alcohol Management) which taught us how to card people, how to serve alcohol responsibly, cut people off, judge alcohol impairment etc. This was in Alaska where the legal age for serving was 21, not 18 like in Minnesota. I really think the law should be changed so that you can't serve unless you are of legal age and everyone should be required to take the TAM class.
Posted by Sumwun (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, maybe the manager needs to be a little more careful in just saying "yeah, go ahead and serve 'em", but your daughters 16, she's old enought to know that she's supposed to be carding people who want to buy alcohol. Sounds like this is just another finger-pointing mother whose perfect child can do no wrong, and everything is someone else's fault. Is anyone held accountable for their own actions any more? Dumb question....obviously not.
Posted by KKW (anonymous) on August 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am the mom who wrote this letter. Let me correct the Journal: The last line to the Judge should read: "Mr. Judge-had you been carding my daughter, you {miscalculating her birthdate} would have been charged with a criminal offense."
I am not a parent whose child does no wrong. But I am a parent who expects a GF pizza establishment to do their duty and instruct their employees HOW to do their job. Especially if the lack of instruction can bring criminal charges.
Another note to a posted comment: How is this blaming "everyone else"? She asked for help, but did not receive it. As a result, she was charged, appeared in court and had to pay a fine 7 times her salary. Who blamed the Judge? The Judge simply made a subtraction error, but my intent was to note just how easy it is to make such an error, even for a educated man.
This was a young person hired to make and serve pizza. As parents, we need to be aware of the policies these establishments practice and how it can affect our kids.
Posted by kmiles (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well... I was afraid that it was the establishment that you listed, KKW... the exact same thing happened when I was working there several years back. It didn't happen to me; I was 18 at the time and could serve alcohol. I remember the day that I got to work and heard the story - it was the exact same as your daughter's story. I'm not sure how that all turned out, other than she was fired - and I'm pretty sure it was her first or second day on the job. It's unfortunate that this has to happen. I usually just carded everyone who looked under 40, right when they asked to purchase the drinks. If they didn't check out, I didn't ring up the drink.
However - for those who make judgments about the daughter and how she should have known better, keep in mind that you don't know the whole situation. This particular establishment can get extremely busy, and customers can get extremely rude when they don't get what they want. As a young person probably working her first job - screaming, ticked-off adults and a manager who tells you to just do it can be a pretty powerful impetus to just do what you're told.
Posted by Nicky (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Totally agree with the last part of kmiles comment.
Also, I worked at Tomacelli's Pizza for a year before it closed. I never got ANY alcohol training from there other than how to pour a good mug of beer from the tap.
Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think this sting operation is nothing more than entrapment.
as far as personal responsibility, why are our police setting kids up to attempt beer purchases in the first place.
how does this teach minors to be accountable for their actions?
this "crime" would not have occurred if our police didn't set into action the events that led to it.
I have known many who have died in alcohol related accidents, but have never heard of anyone drinking some beer in a pizza place getting in a accident on the way home.
this young lady should be commended for working a job, not set-up and punished because the police put some kids up to an illegal act.
our police actually created crime in this situation.
if creating crime is crime prevention, then we need to rethink our values.
"it is a crime in the state of Minnesota for any adult to coerce or encourage a miner to commit an unlawful act".
this is exactly what our police did!
I'm sure we could fill our jails if our police just went around waving their guns until people ran away and charged them with fleeing an officer, but does that mean we should condone it, or feel crime has been prevented?
what a waste of resources and hollow gesture to justify a public paycheck, and destroy a industrious young persons reputation and confidence in the process!
thank you,
Jamie Cooper
Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will also add, that as a former employee of GF pizza, I recall many occasions, in which management denied beer sales to people as they don't just let people come in and get drunk.
it's not a bar and the management makes sure people do not drink there like in a bar.
I feel this sting is a hollow gesture, it does not prevent any crime or harm to our community, it only discredited decent hardworking and underpaid individuals and robs them of their hard earned money to pay fines and struggle to find new employment.
our laes should apply to our people equally and those who try to purchase beer underage should be held accountable.
in the Fargo-Moorhead region,, if you attempt an alcohol purchase under the age or do not provide identification, the police will arrest you as that is the state Law!
it is also the state law "it is a crime in the state of Minnesota for any adult to coerce or encourage a miner to commit an unlawful act"!
whether some in our community get a kick out this or not, our police are committing crimes against our neighbors and families but conducting this "stings".
if I were to talk a child into egging a house and then call the police to arrest him, would that make me a "crime fighter" or an accessory to a criminal act?
Jamie Cooper
Posted by Lee (anonymous) on August 14, 2008 at 5:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Um, wow. The comments posted by Jamie should obviously be taken with a sense of humor.
Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 2:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm not joking around here!
this is BS!
plain and simple
the purpose of our police is to "protect and serve".
this sting has not protected anyone, nor served any purpose other than to trip up otherwise honest people trying to earn a living.
there is no crime wave of kids getting drunk in pizza places, and if they claim there is, they need to show us the numbers.
this is a pointless waste of money and resources, it criminalizes people, but offers no gain to our community in any way shape or form!
if anything it soils the names of decent people and local business's.
I would like to see statistics of how this has benefited our community!
WE are paying for programs like this, so I want proof of it's merit!
Jamie Cooper
Posted by 20yrs_old (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 1:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(Disclaimer: I am not talking specifically about the daughter here) WOW! Jamie, use some common sense. How would establishments every get caught selling alcohol to minors if the stings were never carried out? When someone serves alcohol, they should be concerned that the person that they are serving is of age to drink as defined by law. Most laws are made to protect people, our lawmakers have decided that people under the age of 21 are not fit to drink alcohol. (That is what THEY decided) These stings are the only way to make sure that minors are not being served alcohol, when was the last time you remember a minor reporting to the police that they were served alcohol?
Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on August 15, 2008 at 11:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"when was the last time you remember a minor reporting to the police that they were served alcohol?" - 20yrs_old,
I would say most likely during this last sting when our police coerced minors to buy it!
If the only way to tell minors are consuming alcohol is for the police to coerce minors into attempting to buy, then we really don't have much of a problem with minors drinking do we?
In fact why should it be against the law for a 19+ adult to consume alcohol, if they aren't causing problems in any other way?
this age group has all the responsibility of other adults.
they can purchase tobacco, buy and produce pornography, play the lottery, they can fight in our military, they can even be our police, but they had better not drink a beer while eating some pizza.
just imagine a 20 year old did get away with drinking a beer with pizza a few weeks away from turning 21.
are you frightened yet? oh no!
it's not like they are entrapping these people with 16 year olds you know.
what a load of crap and waste of our public resources.
All just to mess up an otherwise law-abiding hardworking minimum wage slaves lot in life and make our police look like they are earning their keep.
this sting BS is a travesty and a perfect example of whats wrong in our community.
do you really think this has prevented any minor from getting alcohol that is willing to buy it?
when you were in high school do you remember anyone saying "hey we're gonna go drink beer out at a local restaurant tonight, wanna come?" I doubt it!
Kids aren't going out to restaurants to get drunk!
they hide in fields, hotels, and parents homes who are out of town. away from people who could potentially call the police.
if the police want to work a sting operation, how about they set-up some crack dealers, or meth dealers?, and leave our underpaid and under appreciated, young people who are employed alone!
Jamie Cooper
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