Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey, as if the fact that he's a narcissistic, arab, terrorist isn't enough, his initials are also, B.O.

Come on, America. Do you really want a President who's initials are B.O.?

Posted by fergusmnmom (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.

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Posted by Callie25 (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Aren't religious zealots fun?

Posted by bertajean (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is this even worth debating in the opinion section of the Journal? Anyone can see, by driving through Fergus Falls, which candidate will have the most votes in this town. I think I have only seen 2 Obama signs and hundreds of McCain signs. Think back to the 80's...remember the slogan "BO knows"? I know they were talking about a sports figure, but I think it fits for this year's campaign. Instead of NOBAMA, I say GOBAMA!!!

Posted by earlhofert (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Idiots.

On earmarks* -

"McCain Has Voted For 12,673 Earmarks Totaling $144 Billion In Just Six Years. In just six of his 25 years in Congress, John McCain voted for spending bills that included 12,763 earmarks totaling $144.408 billion according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, which the McCain campaign has cited as an authoritative source for the definition of earmarks"

*from factcheck.org

Posted by sametoyou (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

McBush and Pain will only bring the same! GOBAMA!!!

Posted by basca (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:07 p.m.

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Posted by MNfrozen (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am having a tough time understanding why people still think that Senator Obama is Arab. I am appalled at the ignorance. Some of you may not know this but, a true Muslim (which S. Obama is not) is kind and respectful. Just like a "Christian" should be.

I have not seen Senator Obama "bad-mouth" Senator McCain, I have seen him tell us of McCains perceived ideas or policies that he has for his Presidency should he be elected.

I will be voting for Obama...If you want yard signs, go downtown to the DFL headquarters and see what they have. Good luck

Posted by neocon (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.

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Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fergusmnmom: In answer to your question, no, I was not being serious.

I am serious, though, when I say that the saddest thing about this great country we love is that a person can read a statement such as that and have to ask "Are you serious?"

What is wrong with our country today? Did anyone happen to see this little gem from the rally down in Lakeville the other day? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlMpGeCdL...

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

On a positive note, I do believe we are being to see the politics of fear reach critical mass. The castle of cards is beginning to crumble. What was it? Obama is now 10 points up nation-wide?

neocon, have you been attending any McCain rallies lately?

Posted by neocon (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:56 p.m.

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Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

FYI to whomever is wondering why there aren't more Obama signs around....the campaign ran out. The demand outnumbered the supply.

Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WOW. I have read a lot of insinuary, hate-filled, xenophobic comments on this board, but Neocon's 1:59 pm post is hands down the worst. I hope you get a call from the Secret Service and have to defend your assassination comment. That's disgusting and pathetic. Shameful!

Posted by votedem (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Republicans always preach less government...less government...less government. Well let's look at where that got us. A healthcare system that the Republicans refused to step in on, which is now the #1 reason for bankruptcy in America. A Wall Street crisis that the Republicans refused to step in on, and now we have an economic collapse. Oil companies that Republicans refused to step in on, and now we have record gas prices. The one issue they DID step in on....terrorism. And now we've killed more Americans overseas fighting a group of people who will only hate us even more after we've left.

Mr. Mueller, thank you for your opinion. Your bigotry-filled, religiously radical, rationally vacant thoughts do more to shed light on the importance of voting for Obama than I could ever hope for in my own response.

Peace and rationality to all,

Votedem

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey, I was right! Neocon, you have been at some recent McCain rallies. I think I heard one of your quotes recently...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgjtbfkR2...

Posted by neocon (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you dems never get tired of blaming americans

Posted by whostruth (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gezzzz-- I would be afraid to put up a OBAMA sign in this community even if they would be available, the rebublicans are so full of hate, talk about calling the kettle black rebublicans scare me ,perhaps they are terrorist and vigilanties??? this community must have alot of wealthy people, I have yet to find them have commpasion, and if you do you must hide it from the bigots or they will make life rough on you.

Posted by basca (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here you go Jerry

http://www.amazon.com/Koran-Dummies-Soha...

they have one just for you

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's interesting to see what even respectable people resort to when faced with the prospect of defeat.

Posted by theweasel (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 3:01 p.m.

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Posted by fffoodcritic (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry, why did your parents give you such a German sounding name? Are you a Nazi?

Posted by lovemycountry (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All of you please take this test....and you will know if Obama is the candidate for you.

www.BarackObamaTest.com

Posted by votedem (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I respect our soldiers. I respect what they are doing. I respect our soldiers so much that I'm going to vote for Barack Obama because he will bring them back and stop the bleeding. Literally, and figuratively.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, getting a little technical aren't we, capitalist? The statement "I have the utmost respect for the honorable sacrifices that our American heroes in the Middle east have made" does not say anything about anyone dying. A soldier does not need to "die" in order to make a sacrifice. I think just signing up and putting your life in the hands of our leaders is enough of a sacrifice to honored. Don't you?

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry: I reiterate my previous comment about people being faced with the prospect of defeat. I've decided, however, to redact one small portion.

It's interesting to see what people resort to when faced with the prospect of defeat.

Posted by betterworld (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You know what's really scary? The people behind these racist, condemning statements are business leaders and teachers and parents within our own community. They belong to Young Life, they run our school boards, they go to church every Sunday, they are our neighbors. Our communities' age is showing itself; my God, what hatred and outright lies. And Jerry, calling Barrack Obama those awful names is childs play at best; is this what grown men resort to when they are loosing the game?

Jerry, are you then gay? Since your name ryhmes with Fairy, you must be gay, right? Or are you hairy? Scary? Or were you once a Mary but now Jerry? This doesn't make sense, does it? Of course not. See what I'm getting at?

Barracks campaign did not supply DFL offices with limitless signs; they are superficial and costly and wasteful. He is out campaigning, not hoping the number of yard signs displayed helped people decide how to cast their vote.

You who call yourselves Christian. I am Christian too, I've been a member of my church for many many years. I'm also a Democrat. But I love God, I love life, I love babies...it is unfortunate in our tragic world that incidents occur that put a women in a position to have to decide between an abortion or having a baby (rape, date rape, abuse, what have you). I would never call my neighbor the ugly things that are found right on this blog.

The ugliness found here makes me want to move away. No wonder Fergus Falls is dying; the older folks in town still run it, have turned back progress and display an downright ignorant idea of what the future should hold.

There is no reason to vote for McCain and every reason to vote for Obama.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW, in my opinion, it's all "entertaining" until people start making death threats. Then it's time to grow up and realize that at some point spreading hatred and lies can have some very real consequences.

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I believe that McCain (whom I do not agree with as much as I wish I could), is an honorable man" - Richard E. Mueller

LOL
you don't have to vote for him you know?
I know I can't vote for hate speech like theirs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3o3y77M...

Jamie Cooper

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

speaking of death threats.
I have had a few since announcing that I am running for city council.
why?

what is so bad about wanting people to have acceptable water supplies and getting what they are paying for?
what is so bad about wanting to fix how our city council votes for pay raises as to eliminate the possibility of voting themselves a pay increase?
I know some don't like how I refuse to look the other way at police stepping outside the law but remember, if you allow them to do this to others, it could just as easily be you on the business end of that corruption next time.
perhaps some felt I was wrong to be in favor of the movie offers our city was lucky enough to have had?, either way the CDG got their way, I wasn't opposed to the college plans, I just feel our own people should be considered first before catering to foreign interests.

I guess I'm more inclined to think its the fact that I've posted links to our senates 4 year study that showed many Republicans lied to us in order to get us into this war, that is not only immoral, but the main reason our economy is failing.
especially now that I see Republicans are yelling for the Obamas death.
how bad do things need to get before those of you who still cling to the Republicans for claiming Christianity, will follow what the Bible teaches?
the Bible told you deceivers would come.
deceivers don't come saying they are deceivers!

Jamie Cooper

Posted by earlhofert (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry - An interesting statistic to study is how familiar most people are with Barrack's middle name, particularly those folks who use it to invoke fear, as opposed to how many of those same people are familiar with McCain's middle name, which would probably, at the most, invoke laughter.

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think I'm going to put out my Kerry Edwards sign to remind people of what should have been.
imagine where we might be now if things had gone a different way 4 years ago.
maybe gas prices would have stayed as low as they were around that election too?
did we start drilling or something?

Jamie Cooper

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry wrote: "Amy, settle down, life is to short to let these opinions bother you. After all this is a blog, why do you think they call it a blog. If it upsets you so much, don't read it."

Yes, I'd have to agree. Except for the fact that you and people like you are degrading and hurting the country I love. When people stand up and inform John McCain (straight faced) that Barrack Obama is an Arab, something is wrong with this country. When people yell out in a public forum that someone needs to "kill" their political opponent and no one seems to care, something is wrong with this country. And when people like you can light-heartedly spout off things like we will be speaking "Farsi" and practicing the religion of the "Koran" if Barrack Obama is elected President and not have the slightest idea of the kind of damage you are causing, something is wrong with our country. If your hatred were benign I wouldn't care. But it's not, so I do.

Posted by Gregg (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What are we doing trashing one another? Name-calling and ad hominem attacks may entertain, but hardly deepen understanding -- I am surprised that the Journal allows on-line trash talk. We are a nation in transition and transitions are messy and scary. Yet, we have no warrant to abuse one another if we consider ourselves as a civil society. Lashing out says much about the lasher and little about the lashee, don't you think?

Posted by theweasel (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:13 p.m.

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Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

has everyone forgot who gave Saddam Hussein his biological weapons in the first place?
who was the head of our CIA then?
wasn't is a Bush?
instead of judging a man on the sound of his name or the color of his eyes, I say we judge people by things they have control over, like honor, compassion, and personal conviction.
I've never heard of democrats making death threats or bugging hotels, or shooting party leaders in their offices, or rigging elections.
I don't consider myself a Democrat but, I will definantly be voting a straight Democrat ticket this year as dire times call for extreme measures.
I have voted third party for too many elections simply because I wanted to vote for who I honestly felt was the best person for the job.
our world is to messed up right now for the convenience of voting that way.
we must nudge the Republicans out of power at all costs.
what passed for political satire by "Sinclair Lewis" in 1935's "It Can't Happen Here" is too close to reality now!

Jamie Cooper

Posted by farmguy39 (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

votedem
you also forgot to mention how many innocent Iraqians have been killed and this from a president and party that claim to be prolife
republicans who beleive in this war have blood are their hands
and before I hear an eye for an eye from some christian
its already well known that iraq was not involed with 9/11
I have no problem with any religion but non should be involed with running a country

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I stopped reading this opinion the second that the author started referring to Barack Obama as BO. How old are we Mr. Mueller, 5? Seriously? Grow up!

Posted by BaddaBing (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why oh why did I read this right before supper? The opinions of some of you have left a terrible, terrible taste in my mouth.

Mueller, neocon, and the rest of you haters, please do our nation a favor and seek psychological help. Your mindset is destroying our community and ultimately our country. You're like a disease. Please get help.

Posted by BaddaBing (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 7:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh...and you, too, capitalist.

Posted by RightOn (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 7:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

McCain's life and political history is all a mater of recored for us all to see, whether you agree or disagree with him. Obama's life and political views are all very blurred. His father left him. Just where and when was he born? He says he was raised by a white grandmother, was she a rich elitist that could afford the ivory tower universities he attended or where did that money come from, those that pull his puppet strings? Who paid his way to Africa to campaign for his (Muslim) brother? Why does he have so many anti American connections and influences in his life? There are just to many coincidences and chance meetings that Obama has had, he can't be trusted, give him a few more year in the senate to prove himself worthy, if he can. If he is who you dems think he is then all his questionable past actions shouldn't mater in 4 years.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 7:49 p.m.

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Posted by grandma66 (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that the reason that so much negative feedback concerning Obama is not that people think he is Muslim. It is the fact that he is black. They are obviously bigots any way you want to look at it or they will even admit. Why are we in Iraq and not Pakistan looking for Bin Laden? We haven't been on his tail since 2001. Anyone want to ponder why? Could it be that he is dead and this information has been kept from us by Mr. Bush so he can justify this war in the name of terrorism. By the way, I think we got Saddam a long time ago too. All that is going on in Iraq now is a civil war amongst themselves. Insurgents are pro-Saddam that are trying to avenge his death with more death. Nobody wins a war in the name of religion. If it was truly about our security, I would not be opposed, but I have taken the blinders off now and see clearly this is Bush's oil war. He has made a ton of money during his 8 years in office, while the rest of the country is in shambles.

Posted by BaddaBing (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen, grandma66. Put a football uniform on him and everyone would accept him.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Great quote from the Daily Show tonight...

"This campaign [the McCain campaign] speaks for those of us who should not necessarily be speaking." - Aasif Mandi

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 10:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

neocon and, of course, Jerry. If you want to let just the slightest bit of light into the fog of ignorance filling your minds, look up Charles Keating and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal of the late 80's. Keating got together a group of deregulators including Neil Bush and JOHN MCCAIN. He wanted their help to approve a crooked scam against the borrowers from his Lincoln National Savings and Loan, which was going under because he was inept. This scheme was ILLEGAL at the time and cost American tax payers 2.8 billion. Keating received a stiff prison sentence for several counts of fraud.
By the Palin-McCain standard of guilt by association the fact that Keating cleared McCain by saying, "He [McCain] whimped out of all the crooked stuff doesn't matter and, therefore, McCain by his own scum bag standard should be considered unfit for high office because of his relationship to a criminal.

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 10:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mueller. I've never read so many words that said little more than you hate Barack Obama. You may consider yourself a Christian but you will answer for this hatred. Remember: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "Judge not lest ye be judged." Your absurd, juvenile commentary with Barack's initials is something on the level of a 5th grader. As an American, you have a right to your hatred and to even expressing it repeatedly throughout a letter without any substantiation for anything other than your hatred. Please spare us. We really don't care if you hate Obama, right now he's 10 pts up on McCain and the more angry, hate-filled attacks on him there are, the more that margin is going up because AMERICANS ARE SICK OF IT. Even a Republican pundit such as Bill Kristol says so.

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Neocon. You're 70 years late with your cretinous comments. You would have made an excellent guard at one of the Nazis concentration camps. I recommend you check the American war records to discover there are just as many Democrats who fought, been crippled, and died for this country as Republicans, probably more. Why is it that the Republican comments on this blog are so filled with unadulterated VENOM? Why can't you make an argument without filling it with personal insults and bashing? You have the same problem as your candidates, and the American public is becoming more and more repelled by it each day. Go ahead: keep it up, and Obama may just win by a land side.

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 14, 2008 at 10:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't worry about the signs. Obama-Biden don't put much stock in their importance to swing voters. I just returned from visiting my kids and grand children in the Cities, and the signs I counted there were 50-1 Obama's over McCain's. Those signs were not put there by volunteers to the party, but people took the trouble to go down to Obama headquarters to get them themselves. I watched a McCain rally on television and give McCain credit for telling an older woman "no, no, he isn't" when she said, "I can't trust Obama because he's an Arab." McCain also fired one of his campaign writers for abusing Obama's given middle name in Maryland. Even McCain would not put up with the childish anger and brain-rotting hatred of a neocon or Jerry.

Posted by mccain08 (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 1:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

lol coop i drove by yer house and saw that sign a while ago, i laughed so hard i almost crashed.
why do you stupid people think that muslims and arabs are the same thing? that's like saying all catholics are from rome. to be an arab, you must be from the arabian peninsula. no one in obama's family is from anywhere near there. and a lot of arabs are not muslims. McCain is from Panama.
this is all just crap to make people forget about the great depression that's coming and that there's nothing McLame or nobama can do about it. and if we had jerry's marxism in practice today, we would not have to worry. true marxism is a good thing, but it cannot be carried out by humans because we are racist, greedy, lazy, and corrupt. we can only be civil because we are afraid of being punished. unfortunately old karl didn't account for people with absolutely no rational thought like Richard E. Mueller. his entire article says nothing about any issues, it just says obama is A because he knows B and that he has B.O. for initials. Instead of the DJ check the BBC, they don't print such BS, ok, lol

Posted by ginger_ale1 (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 1:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

GOBAMA! GOBAMA! I can't wait to see the look on the faces of you right-wing WASP nutjobs when our new leader takes office. We've suffered through eight years of failure and we're ready for change. We will take back America.

Posted by betterworld (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 6:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Regarding the yard signs; the GOP office puts up signs in the high-traffic intersections to "influence" voters. I think only people like R. Mueller are truly impressed by all that trash stuck in yards. Not only is Bush on his way.....I think Nornes is too......

One of the things missing from all of the election debate are the words "personal responsibility". What about each of us? Each one of us; taking responsibility for our own debts, spending less if we don't have it; and teaching our children that less-is-more, driving less to lessen our dependence on foreign oil, and the biggie; taking care of our own bodies so that we are not so dependent on an expensive medical system to fix us when we are fat and sick and decrepid? Especially the Bible-thumpers; they claim an unrelenting affection for "life" but in any church, on any Sunday here in Fergus Falls, you look at the congregation and see that a majority are fat pigs.

Posted by tippy98c (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 6:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And again!!!!...more wasted space on petty, uneducated, bigotry when useful information on local candidates (both city and state level) seems to elude local voters. A mayoral forum is coming up tomorrow. How about some plans from these candidates before hand? Give voters something to ponder for a day or so. It could just possibly create good discussion.
Am I the only one who seems left in the dark? Have I missed some information somewhere?

Posted by FungusAmugus (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The thing I don't get is how the Republicans and McCain can be so shallow and lack so much dignity, McCain claims to be a Maverick, and still runs on the claims he is his own man, but after being TRASHED by Bush and the Republican party he cowers and stoops to them just for the sake of getting elected,how can he claim to be a Maverick when he threw his dignity away and catered to people he dislikes just for the fact he needs them to advance his career.
How can he then be trusted,when he shows how little his dignity means.
Then you have the Republicans who for the majority do not like him, but feel they don't have a choice but to support him in hopes that if he wins they can manipulate him to play ball with them because they got him in.
Its funny even now McCain still refrences how the Republican party have been crooks and have played a major part in the demise of our nation, litterally insulting them to their face but still aligning himself with them with a wink and a nod. And the Republicans have no choice but to take the slap in the face, cringe and stand and applaud the insults they recieve.
It is funny to see all the McCain Palin signs out though, it lets us see how many Proudly anounce to everyone that they have not one ounce of dignity in them, and they so foolishly post it in their yard and are proud of it.

Posted by commonsense (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am one of those conservatives that really doesnt believe that Obama is an "arab", and I really dont care what kind of associations he has with bad people. What I do care about is the state of our economy and our future energy policies. Obama's plan for energy is to not drill our own oil and focus on alternative's for the next 10 years, keeping gas prices high and leading to more hardships for most americans. His plan for the economy is a socailistic one, He plans on taxing and mandating small business and corporations so we can "redistribute the wealth amoung all americans". Scary enough, these are his own words folks. When Obama mandates that small businesses must pay for your health care, do you think that your employer will not reduce your salary to pay for it? You certianly arent going to be getting any future raises thats for sure. This is common sense people, Obama may be a complicated thinker, idealist or whatever but he doesnt understand simple economics. Hes a socialist by definition and he can no longer hide it from you.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry,

Who are these democrats that are spreading blatant lies and hatred towards McCain and Palin and what are they saying? What did you hear on Leno?

Posted by theweasel (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 10:46 a.m.

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Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry. The "redistribution" from what is was in the 50's and 60's has already happened. Warren Buffet correctly says, "The class war is over and we [the extremely rich] have won." I'm no socialist but neither am I a plutocrat, a person who believes the wealthy are superior to all others and should, therefore, wisely "trickle down" their bounty to the rest of us. It didn't work in the time of Hoover and it hasn't worked in the time Bush. Frankly, I'm far more concerned with the 800,000 people like myself that are currently unemployed than I am with Donald Trump getting anywhere from 20-700 thousand dollars in another McCain-Bush tax cut next year. I'm more concerned with ordinary Americans paying any part of the taxes lost by the billions of dollars going to offshore tax havens. I'm more concerned with the oil companies gauging average Americans at the tax pumps and driving up inflation in the clothing and grocery stores along with it. I'm talking about the top 5 % of the country hoarding and NOT trickling down up to 60% of the nation's wealth. The inequity makes the whole idea of EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY in a democracy a charade. Marx smarx. I'm not talking economic theories here, but economic realities.

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Enjoy your cruise Jerry! I wish I could afford a cruise in this crappy economy! Sadly, this liberal, can't even afford a trip to the grocery store without being overly cautious! Have a Margarita for me!

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW...I don't know if anybody thought to make fun back at Richard Mueller for his name. What a Dick!

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Now, largely because of the Republican attack plan, Obama is up as much as 14% in the latest polls. I'm very thankful that smears, guilt by association, and character assassination are no longer working at all well with most Americans. I only wish it had happened 2 elections ago and that it didn't take such economic pain to teach the lesson. ISSUES AND NOT AD HOMINEM attacks should decide elections!

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jerry, if one is able to back up their statements with facts it doesn't matter how "outnumbered" they are. The facts are the facts. And the fact is, you simply don't have any to back up your outrageous and completely baseless claims. Have fun on your cruise, the rest of us will continue to work long hours, saving every penny we have and cheer on our friend BarryO!

Go BarryO! Go!

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry capitalist. You're going to need to spell it out for me. What do any democrats have to do with either of those magazine covers? Also, where are the lies and hatred contained in those magazine covers?

If you want to discuss a media bias, we can do that, but I asked Jerry who are the democrats he is referring to and what are they saying about McCain and Palin that he believes to be "lies" or evidence of "hatred?" You provided no proof regarding his allegations.

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

did you realize the GOP thinks Palin whooped Biden in the debate?

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

profamily; you wrote "Economics is not an objective science like physics or chemistry (even though Milton friedman thought it was), there are no absolute laws of economics,..."

Economics is a social science, a science of choice and the consequences of choosing. The science presumes that rational people prefer more goods to less goods and that people are insatiable or greedy. It's also understood that the more goods a person acquires the less that person values each additional unit acquired. The reason a millionaire won't wade out into the mud to pick up a dollar bill, while a homeless person would because the homeless person values that dollar bill more. This is the reason taxes need to be progressive to be more efficient. These are objective standards that defines human behavior. All taxes are inefficient and have a negative effect on the social well being of the people in the country. Some taxes are more inefficient than others. In order to reduce the inefficiency of a tax, the person with the most must be taxed at a higher rate than the person with the least. This results in the redistribution of wealth which is a good thing for the nation in that social welfare of the nation is increased when a progressive tax is used. The progressive income tax is much more efficient than say a flat sales tax. Therefore, the progressive income tax should be used to generate the revenues and not a flat sales tax. If only those conservatives that promote flat sales tax understood basic economics, the country would be much better off. Simple concepts seem to elude them, though.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have an MS in Economics from NDSU. The most logical of the three social sciences by far in explaining human behavior. The problem is, is that not all persons are rational. Those who are not are better explained with Psychology or Sociology. All persons have different tastes and preferences. So, not everyone is the same other than everyone who is rational prefers more to less. All decisions are based on benefits and costs. Benefits could be more money, more children, more religion, or whatever. Costs are best explained in terms of opportunity costs, not necessarily limited to monetary costs. I tend to think in terms of the society as a whole. Everyone is a member and is born into certain advantages that come with being a member of that society. The ability to use its infrastructure, economy and its most important asset, the people, in their pursuit of wealth. When one is a member of that society, they need to participate in that society. If they don't think so, they can go back to when human being run naked and threw rocks at their next meal.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PS; I should add that when I began my studies, I was a capitalist. When I completed my studies, I was a socialist. I complained to my professors. They laughed and indicated that I learned the science well. I understand that I need to practice capitalism because socialism won't work by itself because of the inherent flaws in the human species. The reason the USA has a mixed economy. I hold out hope though that someday, people will overcome their inherent flaws and the human species can live in a social society where everyone looks out for everyone else. We'll eventually get there. Either that or we'll destroy each other. The only argument between democrats and republicans is the amount of socialism and capitalism mix that should exist. Some day, that argument may be irrelevant.

Posted by FungusAmugus (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's funny, Jerry and many other republicans are so worried about redistribution of wealth, it seemed to have worked wonderfully for Palin in Alaska, they love her up there for the sole reason she was taking tax money from oil companies and distributing the money to the citizens, yet the republicans don't complain about that!

Posted by commonsense (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Profamily- You say "trickle down economics has brought little prosperity to americans outside of elite circles". This could not be further from the truth. The very heart of our economy is small business (business with less than 100 employees) Wether you are a owner or employee, most of us fall in this category. I am a business owner with 3 employees, I personally make less than 60K a year and pay over 5 figures to the government every year in income tax. I would put myself certainly in the category of "middle class" and not "elite". The point here is that every time a small business is taxed more or mandated for further regulation and penalties it hurts everyone! This it not some economic theory or science, THIS IS REAL LIFE. If im so overtaxed (i think i am now), that I have to take out a loan to make payroll, Im in big trouble and so are my employees. If Companies are pinched, a good manager has to make cuts to survive, its unfortunate but thats business. Do You really think that more taxes to small businesses is not going to effect your pocket book? You must not eat, drink, or drive anywhere then. Look, Obama Doesnt have a clue when it comes to real life, he is a great study however of radical socialistic ideals that only work under dictatorships of some pretty terrible countries.

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 15, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Obama Doesnt have a clue when it comes to real life"...atleast he knows how many homes he owns!

Posted by commonsense (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would point out that McCain and Obama are both very rich men, I would classify both of them as elite. Obama just has a very distorted view of economics, and America for that matter.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

commonsense wrote - "I am a business owner with 3 employees, I personally make less than 60K a year and pay over 5 figures to the government every year in income tax."

You will be glad to learn that according to Obama's own tax plan, during an Obama presidency your taxes will in fact be lowered.

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Awww. Poor profamily. Be comforted by the fact that he/she is now in a better place.

Posted by bigkahunaburger (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

retiredteacher - You couldn't be more wrong about the lack of Obama/Biden yard signs. It's not that they don't put stock in swing voters, it's that they don't put stock in the effectiveness of yard signs. It's just more evidence that using one's brain might not be a bad thing. They figure funds are better spent on a ground campaign of door knocking, where they estimate a visit at the door is 600-700 times more likely to influence an undecided voter than driving past a yard sign. I don't think now is a good time to argue with their results.

Posted by commonsense (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 6:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anarch- I guess I missed a few sentences, "trickle down economics" is working. My business is doing fine, and I plan to expand. Thus my employees will see raises next year also. I really dont think it is fair however that I pay over 10 grand in taxes right now when I only make 60. Consider a "Middle class" employee that makes a nice salary (lets say 75K) for a larger business of which the owners certainly make much more. What taxes (other than payroll taxes) does this person have to pay? Last time I checked this person gets a refund on April 15th. So my point here is that employers from the middle class to the ultra rich pay the most taxes by a huge margin. Again, being very clear here, how is it possible that increasing taxes on any business will NOT hurt everyone? Im not only talking about peaples salaries but also the increased cost of goods and services as a result of these taxes? If you keep taxing a larger company (lets say Schwan's) the cost of ice cream will keep going UP! The re-distribution of wealth is not a stimulus plan or a plan for growth, its a plan for failure. Anything other than that is socialism plain and simple.

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 16, 2008 at 8:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

check this out

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 17, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Capitalist. Both of your arguments are so much hot air. Whose achievements have been rewarded lately? The CEO of Lehman Bros. that walked aways with a 250 million dollar golden parachute? The economic advisor of John McCain named Cindy Faronia (sic) that failed entirely to raise the stocks of Hewlitt-packard and walked away with a 44 million dollar golden parachute? The Haliburton Company of Dick Cheney that received no-bid contracts in Iraq (Isn't free enterprise grand?) and then defrauded American tax payers of millions through inept accounting and failed-to-perform work? How were the middle class doing under Clinton contrasted with now? Were 800,000 of them out of work? How did Bush's 200 billion dollars tax cut trickle down to them? Can they expect to receive golden parachutes? They didn't cheat people with sub-prime mortgages and slippery, incomprehensible contracts known as credit default swaps, did they? I believe capitalism can work, but not as it has been practiced lately by trickle downers who have been obsessed totally with their new god called greed.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 17, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ronald Reagon ran the national debt up by $2 Trillion dollars. Bush, Jr. ran the national debt up by $5 Trillion dollars. I'm voting for the fiscal conservatives. That's the democrats.

I just heard a fascist rant from that rightwing Minnesota congresswoman named Michelle "whatshername" on the Chris Matthews show tonight. According to her, all left wing democrats are unamerican and unpatriotic. It was scary. How could you people elect a freak like that to the congress?

Posted by commonsense (anonymous) on October 17, 2008 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mgd- are you serious? name one democrat that is fiscally conservative. Go ahead, Ill Wait....... Obama has over 1 million dollars in earmarks for each day sitting in his senate seat. So much Pork barrel spending and corruption in government is the reason for the national debt to be in the trillions.