Posted by otterfan (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes...this is exactly what will happen to freedom of speech. Barack is very cocky and I can tell he is too cool for us 'americans'.....God Help Us.

Posted by Callie25 (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Really? Obama owns NBC? Please.

Posted by bigkahunaburger (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Is anyone buying this?

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Joe the plumber should probablly pay his back taxes and thats not smearing, thats facts.
if Joe the plumbers starts raking in $250k a year, why should't he pay some taxes?
better yet who should instead?
we should all hope to be so lucky as to make enough to be axed a little more by Obamas tax plan.
is that why the GOP keep wanting more breaks for the rich?
because in a GOP run future there won't be any more rich other than the GOP leadership?
hmmm?

Jamie Cooper

Posted by bigkahunaburger (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm willing to give 2-to-1 odds that Obama will not attempt to re-write the first amendment when elected. Seriously, put your money where your mouth is.

Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Not only with Barack not tax anyone who's personal income is less than $250k, but it's important to remember that anyone who makes MORE than $250k will only pay taxes on the difference. For instance, someone who makes $280k a year will only pay additional taxes on $30k. Taxes are a necessary evil for an organized and responsible society, not some sort of punishment waged against the public by big spending, big government Democrats. It's a bogus argument and one that needs to be put to rest once and for all.

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

is this guy trying to say Obama created the media? or the concept of investigative reporting?
or is he trying to suggest we are all tax cheats on the verge of making $250k a year?
why would taxing Joe the plumber prevent him from attaining more success?
would you rather the financial divide grow so bad that instead of taxes he'll be defending his home from the out of work hungry mobs?
you Republicans should probably reconsider some of you stands.
you support dumping the poor to fend for themselves in a non-existent market with all kinds of firearms readily available.
what has history shown those conditions have created?
like I said a few months ago, "I now understand why the french cut off Marie Antoinette's head".
now that my leaders are doing the same as theirs were.

Jamie Cooper

Posted by AmyO (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Vote Republican.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'd hire Joe the Plumber in a minute. When he got done and presented me with the bill, I'd say, "where's your license". Since he has none, he also has no claim against me for his work. Period. The penalty for violating the law by presenting himself as a "plumber" or a "contractor" with no valid license is no get paid. He's nothing more than a fraud. I'd tell him to go to haiti and take his bill with him and his "social security is a joke" rethoric, too. This guy is a right wing radio fanatic and ole John McCain should have vetted him, before using him as his poster boy.

Posted by Sassmo (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It'd be nice if the online edition notated what section of the paper the article was published in. If it's anywhere besides the Letters to the Editor or the Opinions/Editorial I would seriously question the integrity of this news source.
Joe the Plumber has admitted that his intention was to bait Obama with his question. Then John McCain thrust JTP into the limelight, not Obama. Before using JTP as a talking point, McCain should have checked him out to make sure he's legit. Now it's coming out that JTP's description of himself, his finances and his position as a potential small business owner are completely false.
Of course the media is going to go after a categorically false attack on Obama made by McCain using the image of JTP!
Under your logic, you could also say the media launched an unwarranted smear campaign to censor James Frey and Oprah when it was discovered that Frey's autobiography "A Million Little Pieces" was a complete fabrication.
This article fails at intelligent, non-biased thought and logic. The Fergus Falls Journal should be ashamed of itself for printing this anywhere in their paper, especially if it was outside of the Editorial pages. What's next? You going to print that Obama is a Muslim terrorist sympathizer who has anti-American views? Because after printing this garbage, that's the next logical step for a news source with this kind of integrity.

Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

capitalist; from what the press was reporting, neither Joe or his owner/boss had a plumbing license which was confirmed to be necessary in his county. In my state and county, anyone who does plumbing, needs a license, unless just doing miscellaneous labor. You actually soder or glue pipes, you need a license. Doesn't matter who you work for. McCain tends to leap without verifying facts.

Posted by Lala (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This kinda makes you think twice to vote Democrat, doesn't it?

http://www.americanpatrol.com/MISCNEWS/2...

Posted by goingfishing (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Everybody can bash things back and forth all they want about Obama and McCain, but frankly I don't really like either one. However, if Obama gets elected, I am more afraid of the next 4 years than I have ever been before. He simply does not have enough experience, (less than a year actively in the Senate) always says what he thinks people want to hear depending on where he is, and seems very untrustworthy because he is constantly changing his position. I'm scared. Hilary was right, he is not ready to be a President.

Posted by shirtlady (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just have one question. A husband and wife both working, make $50,000.00 a year. Who will do better for them? There are alot more people in this country that make that amount or even less, then those who make $250,000.00 or more.

Posted by Granny (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Joe the Plumber does not have a plumbing license, nor does the company that he works for and I am sorry I do not remember the other one they said on Charlie Gibson World News.He got his 15 mins of fame and gave John Q. Public something to speculate about.

Posted by bigkahunaburger (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lala -
Are you trying to sell this as a reliable source? Here's a hint: If the website is brought to you by www.nohussein.org and www.obamacrimes.com, it's probably safe to say that you're not thinking for yourself on this one...
Sorry to hear that McCain pulled out of NM, CO, IA, WI & NH today. I guess it's starting to become clear that the majority of people aren't buying the "fear" bit.

Posted by ottersnap (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The scariest thing to happen to America would be to vote Republican. I am ready for something new, not the same old same old that has been happening for the past 8 years!

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Today's Battleground poll"? What's this, a poll of Fox addicts? All the other polls have Obama by at least 10 pts. Joe the Plumber is about irrelevant to this election as Hazel the Witch. He was a plant, nothing more, nothing less. He lied because he's probably been watching Sarah Palin too much. He's a fervent contributor to the Republican party, which is fine, but it hardly makes him a trustworthy source on the economy. At the end of this particular discussion, Capitalist resorts to all he has left: name calling and accusing everyone that doesn't agree with making fat cats fatter and fatter and fatter is somehow a socialist. The d_______ wealth has been redistributed incredibly during the last 8 years. Anywhere from 40-60% rests in the hands of the same fat cats and instead of trickling it down, they outsourced jobs, cut benefits, cut health insurances, cut workers when they might not be able to pay the obscene salaries of their CEOs. In the last 8 years the average pay of CEOs has risen from 60% to 140% times the wages of his/her highest paid worker. Where's all this money going? It's not being reinvested in jobs for Americans, that's a cinch. More than a billion goes into offshore tax havens. You and I make up the difference in taxes not paid on it. If you want capitalism to survive as I do, Capitalist, you'd better start controlling some of the immoral GREED rotting its foundation.

Posted by mccain08 (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 7:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First Joe was a planted spokesman for McCain. Second, he only gained notoriety because McCain mentioned him repeatedly during the final debate. Lastly, Barack Obama has no control over the media. If they was to vet Joe the Plumber, let them.
Next time if you are going to make claim against people, show a real example. it's the republicans that are usually pro-censorship, there is no worry of the libs obstructing free speech.

Posted by Onderwater (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 7:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What a horribly biased argument, and one that ignores a great deal of key facts and presents misleading evidence. Is this what qualifies as news? I searched 'Barack Obama' on Google News, and this is the third result. As far as I am concerned, this has a better place on a blog than on a "News" website.

Posted by betterworld (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 7:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that Johm McCain should have looked into both Joe-the-Plumber, AND, Sarah-the-Talker before he chose either one of them to spur his campaign along.

This artilce shows the depth to which die-hard Republicans will dive to save their candidate. I hate to even respond to such dither.

Posted by pilsnerurquel (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 8:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

At some point the Republicans are going to have to own up to the fact that their candidate ran a bad campaign and failed to convince the American public that John McCain was the change they were looking for. They can't deny it forever.

Posted by edrule3 (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

McCain and Bush were both academic underachievers; both graduating at the bottoms of their classes. If it weren't for the reputations of their fathers', and others' in their ancestral lineages, they'd likely never have amounted to much. Since when does the United States of America select her leaders from the bottom of the barrel? Leaders are supposed to be selected from the top.

But go ahead Republicans, sell out this country to the New Plutocracy. The monarchial church form of theocracy is where you get your lead because you can't see what it's doing to this democracy and, 'Oh, Don't it feel good' when they tell you how much Jesus' going to love you when you vote for 'God's' way. You can't see that the ones convincing you to vote the Republican agenda are creating dynasties in a country where merit is supposed to trump nepotistic ideals in the public sector.

What is supposed to be a country 'for the People, by the People' has been changing to one 'for the rich, by the rich' for a long time now. The power base has shifted from the 'people' (the majority), to the handful of the very rich (the few). The signs are everywhere; look at what deregulation in our stock markets caused to economies worldwide. A lot of greedy, rich, bastards made killings from that (how's your 401K looking?). Power is wealth, and both are shifting to the handful of the greedy who want to make the changes necessary to keep things going that way for them.

You've heard the saying, 'The rich get richer, the poor -poorer', haven't you? How could that happen in a country where we are supposed to stand shoulder-to-shoulder and fight corruption like that? Well, that's what's happening now. Soon we'll have a two-class system where opportunity knocks a whole lot less than the bleak reality we already have.

If you want a better picture of our economic health the unemployment statistic isn't the one to look at. The real indicator of the health of our country's economy is the 'Discouraged Worker' statistic. Too many people don't look, or can't afford to look, for work anymore. The rich look for ways to automate and eliminate workers, especially in the U.S., or they move their operations to foreign shores where labor is pennies on the dollar. And who do you think represents the rich over the rest of us? McCain says it straight out, he's for the rich all the way. It's the Republican agenda, since Reagan as far as I can tell anyway.

Soon it'll be the aristocracy vs. the rest of us. Soon, it'll be like the U.S. never existed and the church will again have all the power in the world, like before this country was free . . . before it was even invented by our forefathers . . and whose fault will that be?

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

edrule3. I can't agree about the church, but I do agree with almost all of the rest of your post. There are parts of history, unfortunately, that also concur with your criticisms of churches, too. Churches are like government. You can choose to subscribe to them or not. That's your right in this country. Churches are also like people. There are some that are very good and there are some that are not. I'm not even sure it has that much to do with denomination as much as it has to do with how much they respect their members as individuals and do not expect them to be unthinking sheepish followers.

Posted by whostruth (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 10:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would love to make $250,000 a year!!! and I would love to pay more taxes at that rate also,Really!!! give me a break folks, They rich are a bunch of greedy ...... using the middle class as slaves for their wealth!

Posted by retiredteacher (anonymous) on October 21, 2008 at 10:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Capitalist. You know we're not that bothered by the small business people in this country that work their fannies off to make a good living. But if you can justify, really justify the salaries of too many CEOs in this country, then you have little if any objections to unmitigated greed. Your party extols love of country, but I don't see any of that in large corporations who outsource jobs for the sake of paying poor people in other countries as low as a dollar an hour, so they can pay their execs 25 million a year. Haliburton receives very questionable fat-cat no-bid contracts (Cheney's old company), cheats American tax payers through no-performance in many instances, outright scams us up to 7 billions, and then moves to Dubai to escape paying taxes and for the sake of cheaper labor. Wow! Such love of America we really can do without. I agree that people should be paid more for HONEST initiative, hard work, great stress, etc. My daughter is a doctor and her pay is miniscule compared to so many of these greedy suckers. She as smart as they are; she may actually work harder than they do, but she has a very different value system than they have. For that I'm very thankful.

Posted by apinion (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All I can say is if you elect Obama and you loose your job don't come a bitchin! What do expect is going to happen when you take 50% of businesses profits??? May be you should move to China so you can get your job back at 10% of the wage you would have earned here!!!

Posted by apinion (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

edrule3,

Are you crazy!!! If Obama is elected president I pitty you if you have a 401K that isn't 100% in cash or gold. Obama is going to tax those companies in your 401K account and take that money and give it to the drug dealers, and others that work on a purely cash basis, or are dead beats and don't work at all! So your 401K will dive and make the great depression look like a walk in the park!!!

Also what's up with the statement "can't afford to look" are you insane. If you are out of work don't tell me you can't afford to look for a job... Sounds to me like you don't deserve a good job because you are LAZY!!! If you don't make a profit why should a company have you around.

Posted by betterworld (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Such dribble. Go Barrack Obama. You have class, intelligence, morality, love of the human-race, and God knows we need a real Leader. One actually elected by We the People.

Posted by FungusAmugus (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Isn't it AMAZING when the discusion of Obama vs McCain comes up the whole conversation is about what Obama is going to do!!!!!
Reason? Obama is the only canidate that has a plan, agree or disagree with his plan, plain and simple our country is not doing very well and we HAVE to do something different!!!
Obama is the only canidate that has the backbone or odacity to use his mind and at least try to come up with a plan to find a solution to problems we are facing.
McCain on the other hand has NOTHING! if he did we would be debating why or why not HIS plan would work!
Instead all he has is to try to scare people into voting for him.
All you have to do is listen to yourself, what comes out of your mouth when you are articulating your view of McCain and Oboma, McCain supporter all say the EXACT same thing, be AFRAID of him because he does this or believes in that.
You say if Obama is elected he is going to this and that!
You NEVER hear a McCain supporter say McCain is going to do this for us, that he is going to change anything for the better, if so let us HEAR IT what is he planning on changing that is going to make things better????
Think about it what does he have to offer, if he did have a solution other than the same thing that has gotten us hear in the first place!
And to the Idiot apinion that's worried about the 401K's going away, have you looked at what is happening RIGHT NOW what will they look like a year from now if we continue the road we are on now.
And your idea that businesses will leave and jobs will be lost when the rich business owners have to pay more taxes is idiotic, if you believe in the free market then you would realize if they want to close up then let them, if there is a market someone else will take their place, better yet a couple of small businessmen who are eager and willing will jump at that oppotunity.

Posted by concerned08 (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have a desire to make this one comment. This will be kind of coming out of the blue but it's still about the campaign. It is something I heard on the radio the other day. The McCain Campaign is raising a commotion over Obama wanting to "spread the wealth." If they/we have a problem with that, why isn't there a problem when we are spreading the debt around with a $700 billion bailout plan. Isn't that more of a problem for us?

Posted by otterfan (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama supporters angry! mean! scary!

Posted by metasonics (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Republicans angry! mean! scary! making death threats against political candidates.

Posted by FungusAmugus (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Otterfan I truely do understand, I know being a republican your life consists of constant fear of everything and I know it must be very hard to get by day to day with all these fears, I apologize for adding yet more fear to your fearfilled life, please try to get ahold of yourself, may I suggest watching alittle less fox news and try maybe something educational, I know, I know that will be VERY scarry for you , but just take it slow at first.

Posted by otterfan (anonymous) on October 22, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fungusamugus....i am only trying to prove a point. Anytime anybody 'outside' of your circle says anything 'bad' you people freak out. Obama supporters angry! mean! scary!
Thanks for proving my point.
you people don't scare me and i laugh in the face of such ignorance....hahahahaha....hahahahaha
please....scared...hahahaha now that's funny.

Posted by SunnyD (anonymous) on October 23, 2008 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Apinion is brainwashed

Posted by FungusAmugus (anonymous) on October 23, 2008 at 4:43 a.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by concerned08 (anonymous) on October 23, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If it says that in the bible aren't we predestined for it to happen. Why even bother voting for McCain. If we don't elect Obama Saint John's prophecy may not come true and we don't want that. Sorry to use the sarcastic tone, but I think that is a ridiculous statement. By the way, where in the bible does it mention Muslim descent.

Posted by Exegesis (anonymous) on October 23, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

“I post on this board to try to reduce the immoral greed rotting the foundation of capitalism, which I refer to as socialism”

It seems to me that socialism is a result of capitalism. People find it attractive when they figure out that people have intrinsic value that money has only extrinsic value. Bush 1 was right when he called trickle-down economics “voo-doo economics”. Since Reagan there has been a trend toward polarizing the extremes, the rich get richer, the middle class shrinks and the poor get poorer. This is a direct result of deregulation, tax cuts for the corporations and ultra-wealthy. Thinking that tax cuts create jobs is foolish. If I own a business and employ X-number of people, and everything is getting done, then I’m not going to hire another person just because I pay less tax. Alternatively, if things aren’t getting done, I’m going to hire another person regardless of the amount of taxes I’m paying. That’s just good business.

If you want to get into the moral argument, then it seems to clearly be the case that capitalism is the immoral economic system. Think about it. My company is making widgets. After labor, materials, overhead costs, etc., let’s say it costs me $3.00 to produce my widgets. I turn around and sell my widgets for $5.00, and let’s stipulate that is what they are worth. What conclusion can we draw? The evidence would seem to indicate that I’m not paying my employees enough. Why? Because, if we use a labor theory of value, the difference in price is the difference in what I’m paying you for your labor and what your labor is worth (since overhead, materials, etc., are – usually – fairly stable). So the profit comes from me paying you less than your labor is worth. Why do most of the people I know (carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc.) prefer to not subcontract with a contractor? Because then they get paid what they are worth. If you subcontract, then you turn in your bid, the general contraction adds 10% for himself, and submits the bid to the customer (although that 10% isn’t written in, it’s built in to other things).

Oh yeah, that whole jealousy thing – that’s really miserable reasoning. Are you actually saying that you have some kind of extra-sensory perception that allows you to “see” what other people are feeling?

P.S. concerned08 – I should have read this one first, I think you’re on the money about the predestination claims.