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Sharing the wealth raises ire
Published Monday, November 17, 2008
Tom Hintgen
Earlier this month, at church, we as a congregation invoked an intention, “that those with abundance will share with the poor.”
This might be true for charitable giving. But when it comes to sharing the wealth via higher taxes, that hit some raw nerves during the recent presidential campaign.
During the campaign President-elect Barack Obama said he’s amazed that selfishness “has become a virtue.”
But hold on, say many conservatives. They emphasize that Obama is missing the point.
A majority of Americans, through surveys, say the government is doing too much and should instead be leaving more to individuals and businesses. And when asked how government should fix the economy, people overwhelmingly said they favor policy to improve overall economic conditions and the job situation, rather than steps to redistribute income.
John McCain, during the presidential campaign, lambasted Obama’s words about “sharing the wealth” as sounding a lot like socialism. He turned the criticism into a central theme of his campaign's final round.
“Obama's remarks,” McCain said, “are emblematic of a tax plan to confiscate wealth and give it to the poor that would make the IRS a giant welfare agency."
Historians, however, point out that more than two centuries ago Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson and other early leaders warned about the hazards of too much in the hands of too few. Since then, Americans have developed complex views on this controversial issue.
According to economists, an increasing share of the wealth has gone to people at the top of the income scale. The top tenth of U.S. households now earn an average of 11.2 times what those in the bottom tenth make, according to the Census Bureau. That's up from a ratio of 8.7 three decades ago.
The wealthiest one-fifth of U.S. households now take in 50 percent of all income, up from 44 percent in 1977. The differences are even more pronounced in analyses of incomes for the top one percent of households.
"The income gap between the rich and the rest of the U.S. population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself," then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said in 2005.
But Americans remain divided on whether government should be heavily taxing the rich in order to benefit those with less.
Many wealthy people, including Warren Buffett, support higher taxes on the rich. In a country that believes in itself as a place where anybody who works hard enough can make it, though, there's a certain wariness of taxes that might discourage hard work.
McCain's criticism of Obama's tax plan is tied to a belief that if a person gets ahead through one’s own efforts, he or she should benefit from the fruits of those labors.
Americans didn't face the first tax on personal income until 1861, when a Union government desperate for cash to fight the Civil War decided it had little choice. The tax was sold as a way of making sure the rich, most of whom were not marching off to war, were bearing their fair share of responsibility.
When Americans were polled by Gallup in April, 68 percent said they believe money and wealth should be distributed more fairly. In a survey in July, 49 percent said the U.S. has become a nation of haves and have-nots, up from 37 percent who felt the same way four years ago.
In the meantime, Americans will no doubt continue with charitable giving. Higher taxes in order to share the wealth is another story.
Tom Hintgen’s column runs on Mondays.
Comments
The Daily Journal is happy to host community conversations about news and life in Fergus Falls and the surrounding area. As hosts, we expect guests will show respect for each other. That means we don't threaten or defame each other, and we keep conversations free of personal attacks. Witty is great. Abusive is not. If you think a post violates these standards, don't escalate the situation. Instead, flag the comment to alert us. We'll take action if necessary. It's not hard. This should be a place where people want to read and contribute -- a place for spirited exchanges of opinion. So those who persist with racist, defamatory or abusive postings risk losing the privilege to post at all.Posted by rodentboy (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
so you are saying if i don't work i will get a check in the mail from the goverment who took it from someone who is.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you go on welfare then the answer would be YES.
Posted by puddlejumper (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wanna quit my job then.
I work - but I am poor because I am over taxed.
I earn ok money - before taxes. After I pay out taxes, I'm left with nothing.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
PUDDLEJUMPER,
Obviously, your left with something or else you either woulden't work or you would get a better job. I agree taxes are high but if you don't like it demand change in government. If you voted for OBAMA prepare yourself, you think your taxes are high now, just wait until Obama raises them to the point no one will be able to afford anything, except that is for those who don't work in the first place.
Posted by BeaverFan (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Earlier this month, at church, we as a congregation invoked an intention, “that those with abundance will share with the poor.”
What a great idea. The catholic church is a billion dollar organization that doesn't pay any tax. We get to support the church by paying higher property taxes. The average family in the United States pays a minimum of $925 a year in hidden taxes to keep churches from all taxes -- on real estate, on non-related businesses, on income, and on their enormous wealth in stocks and bonds. Churches pay no sales tax, inheritance tax, income tax, personal tax, or ad valorem tax. They own and operate businesses exempt from corporation tax.
Perhaps we should start looking to the church for financial assistance....because...“those with abundance will share with the poor.”
Go BSU!
Posted by Mr_Lincoln (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more
Posted by mgdbottled (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The whole purpose of the progressive income tax which tax was first introduced during the civil war and finally made constitutional around 1920 after the enactment of the 16th Amendment was to fund the government and to redistribute income. Why the big surprise? The progressive income tax system has been redistributing income from the rich to the poor for nearly a hundred years. What? You guys been asleep for your entire life? It's not a new concept.
Posted by rodentboy (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
welfare is already abused, but why send a rebate check on top of the monthly money already given to them
Posted by watermelon (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow, Mr_Lincoln...you're getting creative with your anonymous plagiarism. Those are lyrics from a Ten Years after song. Do you actually think for yourself or do you let the web do it for you?
Posted by Thomas (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The mentality these days is a far cry from the World War II era when people on the home front gladly paid higher taxes to support the troops overseas, purchased war bonds and took part in food, clothing and gasoline rations. When the troops came home they lived modestly, worked hard, raised families and gave back to their communities. Dwight Eisenhower warned about greedy people getting rich through the military industrial complex. Many war veterans supported higher taxes to help those in need, including the desire to help, through higher taxes, many of their fellow war veterans.
Posted by BS (anonymous) on November 17, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To those concerned about redistribution of wealth [New taxes can only be generated by the House of Representatives - not the President], consider that the trillions of dollars in deficit spending over the past 8 years has already "redistributed the wealth" - now it is time to pay for it. The "No new taxes" mantra really means: "Spend now and pay later".....It is like paying for an old bar bill, it is a painful process. Best get used to it thanks to the past 8 years. And yes, Christ-like practices require that we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and take care of the homeless, and a whole lot more!
Posted by duke12 (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 12:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul. It's pretty obvious what is happening here in the USA. Someday the party is going to end. There won't be any Peters left to pay taxes. Nothing more to say.
Posted by Sumwun (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wait a minute....did someone actually throw out a "double-dog-dare"??? I know it's getting close to the holidays, but since when did it become acceptable to be an adult throwing out quotes from the Christmas Story??...No one go and lick the frosty flag pole now.
Posted by Zepherin (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Many of you are missing the point. Higher taxes also are needed to support veterans homes, equipment for our troops overseas, bridges and other worthwhile projects. And let's be honest, many of us could well afford to pay a litle more and not adversely hamper our lifestyles.
Posted by Zepherin (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Many of you are missing the point. Higher taxes also are needed to support veterans homes, equipment for our troops overseas, bridges and other worthwhile projects. And let's be honest, many of us could well afford to pay a little more and not adversely hamper our lifestyles.
Posted by Mel (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sumwun,,,The "double dog dare" and "triple dog dare" have been around long before the Christmas story was filmed. In fact many of the fun things in that story are common to me. That movie is a real good one.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well Said Jerry!
First of all I woulden't work at WALMART for that very reason. I as a reasonable human being would see that I should maybe find a job that pays better or get a second job....oh heaven forbid you might actually have to work hard for a decent living. Second please tell me how on earth you will give a tax break to 95% of the population when we have a multi trillion debt. Someone, somewhere is going to have to pay for it and I suppose it's going to be those dirty rich people who acutually busted there butt and made their millions. Again it's always poor me, the "man" is keeping me down. No, it's you who keeps yourself down. No one is stopping you from working 40-80 hrs a week to make money and there are millions of way to get it if you want it. Stop crying and make something of yourself or else shut it because I for one simply won't feel sorry for anyone who chooses to do nothing.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wher on earth have you ever been where WALMART is the only business in town? That argument is weak and just another excuse as to why people don't work for what they want.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have no time for people who make excuses and furthermore at one point in my life I was working a full time job, a part time job and goiung to school part time. I literally was work from 7:00am to 9 or 10 pm every day 5 days a week and every other saturday so please spare me the simatics.
Posted by akmscott (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Welfare begats welfare.There will be tremendous abuses by people who want something for nothing.Either go communist or let people decide what they want to do with their own hard earned money!
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh please, I never said one bad word about the folks who choose to work at WALMART. My point was that noone is forcing anyone to work at WALMART. If you choose to work at WALMART and they have no benefits and terrible wages then why work there? My point is also that everything in America is a choice. Either you choose to work your butt off for what you want or you go without. Why should I feel bad for those who make poor choices in their lives? I have made poor choices and suffered many consequences and further I don't blame WALMART, the GOVERNMENT or anyone else except me. You want to know how I got out of poverty and made something of myself? I moved from no jobs FERGUS FALLS to where there was JOBS and OPPORTUNITY.Then I joined the military, Then as per my last comment I worked my butt off. If your not willing to make the same sacrifices then you will find no sympathy from me. I believe in a hand up not hand outs.
Posted by username (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hometown, when you were working full-time, going to school part-time and working every other Saturday, I'm assuming you had no CHILDREN to take care of? If you did, I would sincerely be interested to hear how you pulled that off. It's easy to work all the time and get YOURSELF ahead when you are the only one you have to worry about.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First of all,
I never said people who work at walmart are lazy, never said it. Second I could write a 5,000 page book on how to overcome those "external factors" of which we have no control of. Everything you write is an excuse, I can't because.... yada, yada, yada. As I have said, people who are indeed working their butts off and not living off the dole I have no problem helping out when they need it. I do have a problem with people who whine that they have nothing but yet won't do anything to change it. Reality tells us that life is not always fair. we all get crapped on from time, whether it's by big business, our family or just life in general, so please tell me how that changes the fact that only you are responsible for you and the choices you make? Your life is your resposibility not anyone else's so logic tells us that only you have the ability to make it, change it, or do nothing with it. If you choose the latter then don't expect anyone to be there for you. that is the point I am making, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First, it's called daycare and having a spouse.
And yes I work two jobs to this day to support my family. Do I sacrifice time with my family yes and it sucks however, that's the price I have to pay to be a responsible father and husband so again nothing but excuses.
Posted by rodentboy (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hometown is right, everyone has control over their own destiny.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank You!
Posted by username (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I also use daycare and have a spouse. You are very fortunate to have a spouse that is willing to work to put you through school while raising kids and paying for daycare. I hope you will return the favor.
Hometown, I commend you for your efforts to be responsible and for encouraging others to do the same. I agree with you that people should not expect hand outs. All I am saying is perhaps you should try using your experience as ENCOURAGEMENT rather than belittlement. Not everyone is so fortunate to have a spouse to take care of their kids while they work and go to school, and are working hard, just like you, to provide for their family. Getting out of Fergus to where there are better paying jobs is probably a good solution, but moving isn't cheap either. Times are tough for everyone right now.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think you misunderstood me. I think that it's perfectly noble to work anyplace that helps you provide for you and your family even walmart. however what my point was that if walmart isn't paying the bills then it's time to move on or find a second job instead of complaining that they are not paying enough. again it's always a choice. Of course things happen to all of us in which we have no control over, the key is what you CHOOSE to do about it that will determine the outcome. I believe that anyone can overcome any adversity if they have the heart and desire to do so. Further I would gladly lend a hand to anyone who needed it providing they were doing everything they could to provide for themselves. Finally I don't believe that we (the human race) are powerless over anything short of death unless we choose to succumb to it.
So my question to you is what exactly would constitute a situation beyond our control that would keep someone down for their whole life? I just don't get it?
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Username, I agree there are no easy roads for folks like you and me. For me I made a plan and stuck to it. It didn't happen overnight. it took ten years for me to really get to where I felt semi comfortable. I know that it is very, very difficult to raise children on your own. Not from my experience but from what I have seen many of my friends and family have gone though. My Mother raised me and my other two siblings on her own and we did rely on help from the church and welfare when times were tight, but the one thing my MOM taught me was that you must always work, which even though we got some assitance my mother always worked, even when it would have been way easier for here to just go on the dole full time. From that experience alone I decided that no matter what crap is thrown at me that I have a responsibility to do the right thing as often as possible in my life. I don't expect anyone to live up to my personal standards, that's something left up to the individual and I would never, ever, look down on someone who has less then me, because I was once there. I just feel like it anyone practices hardwork, time and patience then yes everyone can get there. It's been ten years for me and i'm still reaching for mine but i'll never quit because I owe my mother, myself and my family more then that.
Posted by username (anonymous) on November 18, 2008 at 8:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Agreed. And I sincerely wish you continued success for you and your family.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 19, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Username, Thanks you and right back at ya, best of luck in all you do!
Capitalist, Thank You for the kind words!
HOMETOWN
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 20, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OH, where do I begin,
Racism, It comes in many forms and I believe discrimination is more accurate today then outright racism. Yes I will acknoledge that it is still alive and well but again I have had this discussion with many a minority and most always say the same thing. One that yes it's still out there and two it's more rare then it has ever been and three most agree that it's mainly an excuse not to succeed. In fact the avaerage minority has way, way more opportunities then I have as a white male IE: affirmitive action and so on.
State Terror?
If you mean the police, FBI, CIA and so on, let me just assure as someone who has friends who do this kind of work on all levels they have bigger fish to fry then you and further if your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.
Poverty can be tough to over come but it can be done so that arguement is weak.
Finally, predatory economics is straight out the the liberal left handbook. No one said life was easy or fair but if you don't want to stand up and challange or change it then who are you to whine about it.
The economics in this country are capitalist, which means if you have a great idea and a solid plan then you could make your millions too.It also means that if I do it and you don't well too bad for you because I took the time and desire and dedication it took to get there and you didn't consequently the blame for your inaction is squarely on you not me or the government, or walmart, or society, or anyone else you care to blame for your shortcomings. Again (if I am hearing you correctly) is I can't be a success in America because i'm a minority, The police are always after me, the economics are skewed against me, I was raised poor, rich people have it out for me. Again all I hear is excuse after excuse.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 20, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P.S.
Yes the cure for poverty is working which genrates a thing called money which allows an individual to buy things. like an aprtment outside the ghetto and a car to get there.
Posted by anamerican (anonymous) on November 20, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anarch,
If America was socialized, the impetus 'to work' or strive for something better as a free person would be removed. As a result, everyone would sit on a computer all day on opinion boards, thereby developing an inflated sense of one's self as opposed to contribute to society or even make friends outside of cyberspace. Again, the young naive mind at work visualizing a world of perceived wealth provided to you at the expense of others. You tell those in Somalia, China, any country in the Middle East, Mexico etc... that the 'American Dream' or the opportunities afforded to anyone and everyone in America is set up as a ‘predatory structure’, and to go back home or to find a more opportunistic ‘structure’ anywhere on this planet. I am holding back what I really think of you and of your ideals. Life is just too hard for you to succeed so you rip on those who believe, AND LIVE the American Dream, and do so without excuses, by setting goals and working to achieve them through hard (real-world, not cyber) work. The computer is your drug, and life experience is your cure, go out and become a productive member of society. PUT INTO this great system, because we are seeing more and more people that only TAKE from it, and right now…that includes you.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 20, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ANARCHOSYNDICALIST,
I am always amazed at people like you who have such a bloated sense of self importance. You don't hold any of your freedoms bought and paid for by folks like me and other vets. You sit and whine and complain that life is so bad here and make all the excuses you can but you can't fight the truth and the truth is it's people like you who absolutely refuse to take any responsibility for you and your life, content to blame it on the next guy. If you hate the way things are in our country then either change it or leave it. No one is forcing you to stay. Lastly, if you do leave the security of your parent's basement please go to some countries around the world that have nothing and try and scratch out a living, then come back and talk to me about how terrible it is here. Until then your sorry excuses about why you can't succeed here will furthermore fall on deaf ears.
Posted by hometown (anonymous) on November 20, 2008 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
T, we need to talk
Posted by edrule3 (anonymous) on November 21, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you believe the illegal immigrant argument: that they take only the jobs US citizens don't want, then you're completely in the dark. Therein lies one of the biggest problems our country faces, and the people responsible for it are the employers who hire them. And from the arguments above I can easily pick out the mentalities of those who would employ them. How long has that been going on? How do we change that? You see - the rich have made this country theirs. We have to play by their rules. We've been reverting back to a monarchial form of government since Reagan. But it's more of a plutocracy than a monarchy. They hire illegals or ship the jobs overseas, rather than pay a living wage to their US contemporaries.
Posted by edrule3 (anonymous) on November 21, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Does the homeowner hire them directly, or does the contractor provide them under his employment? We all know that the government in Louisiana turned a blind eye to it after hurricane Katrina, even though New Orleans mayor Nagan said, in the beginning, the recovery jobs were for Louisiana Blacks only. I've even heard praises given to the illegal aliens, as if the recovery couldn't have happened without them.
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